1. Saber duel=exile (the exile knows all VII forms at this point, while kenobi only knows 2.)
2. Force duel=hard to tell. Haven't seen/heard much on the exiles part, nor on kenobi's-- im going with the exile on this one.
3. all out=Exile
the exile is in a league of his own, having defeated nihilus, scion, and Kreia.
This truly cannot be argued for, as Dark Side Exile is non-canon and somewhat irrelevant. However, for the purpose of this argument:
Sabers- Obi-Wan will likely take this. There has been nothing to suggest the Exile had exceptional lightsaber skills; she did not even defeat any particular saber beasts, unlike Revan, who took down Malak. Please. The Exile, in a short time, LEARNED of all of the forms, not mastered them; and it's not necessarily canon, anyways, as for all we know, the Exile could have not been a Jedi Guardian.
Force- Hmm... it's probable the Exile would take this. Obi-Wan had never displayed any extraordinary force feats, while the Exile did display some inherently force powers.
All Out- Impossible to know. There is no absolute canon source as to evaluate the power of the Exile.
Oh, and by the way- Sion was only formidable due to his permanent life-span, and the Exile mind-raped him. Nihilus was left vulnerable due to his failure to drain the Exile, and his lightsaber skills were hardly exceptional. Traya... well, Traya was possibly not really trying to kill the Exile. Traya was strong, as she exhibited a force drain near Nihilus' level, but she never attempted a similar thing on the Exile, and judging from her in the game, her saber skills were crap.
Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Oh, and by the way- Sion was only formidable due to his permanent life-span, and the Exile mind-raped him. Nihilus was left vulnerable due to his failure to drain the Exile, and his lightsaber skills were hardly exceptional. Traya... well, Traya was possibly not really trying to kill the Exile. Traya was strong, as she exhibited a force drain near Nihilus' level, but she never attempted a similar thing on the Exile, and judging from her in the game, her saber skills were crap.
"mind raping"=superior intelligence. Nihilus was left vulnerable, but this does not make his defeat impressive. Traya, knowing the exile, and what "force draining" did to nihilus, probably decided NOT to drain the exile. Saber skills=crap, or exiles skills=godly, its just how you decide to take the contrast, and gameplay mechanics are not canon. She fought the exile with lightsabers untill he chopped off her hand. Then she used TK to fight the exile with three lightsabers at a time, each fighting as if they had an individual user. the exile chopped off her hand and then destroyed the lightsabers, and then finally finished traya. This is supreme dueling on his part. Also, the exile has been a jedi before, and learned all of the forms during his exile, not speaking of the ones he knew/mastered as his former jedi self. He has also dueled more then rots kenobi, had far more dueling experience, and perhaps even more war experience; living through both the mandalorian war, and the sith(malak) vs republic(revan) war. He probably has equal cunning to obi wan as "mind raping nihilus" and 50 years of combat experience as a general shows.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
"mind raping"=superior intelligence. Nihilus was left vulnerable, but this does not make his defeat impressive. Traya, knowing the exile, and what "force draining" did to nihilus, probably decided NOT to drain the exile.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Saber skills=crap, or exiles skills=godly, its just how you decide to take the contrast, and gameplay mechanics are not canon. She fought the exile with lightsabers untill he chopped off her hand. Then she used TK to fight the exile with three lightsabers at a time, each fighting as if they had an individual user.
Gameplay mechanics are not canon. If the Exile has good saber skills, then the way YOU played the game does not matter. By the end of the "game" the exile has fully recovered the connection with his past and has all of his jedi training, sith expertise, and war experience.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
the exile chopped off her hand and then destroyed the lightsabers, and then finally finished traya. This is supreme dueling on his part.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Also, the exile has been a jedi before, and learned all of the forms during his exile, not speaking of the ones he knew/mastered as his former jedi self.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
He has also dueled more then rots kenobi, had far more dueling experience, and perhaps even more war experience; living through both the mandalorian war, and the sith(malak) vs republic(revan) war. He probably has equal cunning to obi wan as "mind raping nihilus" and 50 years of combat experience as a general shows.
He has all of his experience, but Kenobi has his years of fighting with Anakin, and his years as a General. He is the "most cunning member of the council" (others have made this claim, it has not been contested. I will check my novelization of Revenge) Kenobi was known as "the negotiator"- so his mind HAS to have been sharp. Kenobi has several impressive Duels: Maul, Grievous, Anakin, sparring with Yoda and Mace (and qui-gon). The exile has Nhilus, Sion (twice) and Traya (and maybe visas- was she impressive?). Obi-wan was counted as a phenomenal swordsman in the heyday of the order.
I think that :
1. Obi-Wan
2. Exile (obi has few force feats-- vs. a hole in the force)
3. Obi wan will barely manage to pull this off, but he WILL win.
Originally posted by Jbill311your just adding to the proof that kreia would not force drain him, which is pretty much, one of my objectives.Traya was the exile's connection to the force, at least in the beginning. I will find quotes if I must. She also relied on the force to fight, and may have had to resort to fighting without it if she wanted the exile to do the same.
Gameplay mechanics are not canon. If the Exile has good saber skills, then the way YOU played the game does not matter. By the end of the "game" the exile has fully recovered the connection with his past and has all of his jedi training, sith expertise, and war experience.
Agreed.
goooood. the force is strrooong with you.
Which he remembered by the time of his fights.
He has all of his experience, but Kenobi has his years of fighting with Anakin,
he only had two fights with anakin. one on mustafar, and one on the death star in ANH.
and his years as a General.
He is the "most cunning member of the council" (others have made this claim, it has not been contested. I will check my novelization of Revenge) Kenobi was known as "the negotiator"- so his mind HAS to have been sharp.
Kenobi has several impressive Duels: Maul, Grievous, Anakin, sparring with Yoda and Mace (and qui-gon). The exile has Nhilus, Sion (twice) and Traya (and maybe visas- was she impressive?). Obi-wan was counted as a phenomenal swordsman in the heyday of the order.
Also, obi wan has shown incredible weakness when it comes to defending against the force. In ROTS he is force choked, force pushed, and then force crushed by a big object in the middle of a duel. Anakin also pretty easily force chokes him. Where the exile might not be able to get past his defenses in saber combat, he would just force him.
I think that :
1. Obi-Wan
2. Exile (obi has few force feats-- vs. a hole in the force)
3. Obi wan will barely manage to pull this off, but he WILL win. [/B]
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11Self-ownage, much?
"mind raping"=superior intelligence. Nihilus was left vulnerable, but this does not make his defeat impressive.
She fought the exile with lightsabers untill he chopped off her hand. Then she used TK to fight the exile with three lightsabers at a time, each fighting as if they had an individual user. the exile chopped off her hand and then destroyed the lightsabers, and then finally finished traya.You do know that Traya only had one hand after Peragus, right?
This is supreme dueling on his part.Exile is female.
Also, the exile has been a jedi before, and learned all of the forms during his exile, not speaking of the ones he knew/mastered as his former jedi self.Prove that she'd ever mastered a form.
He has also dueled more then rots kenobi, had far more dueling experience,Prove this. Kenobi went through more lightsaber duels in the Clone Wars than the next three Jedi combined.
He probably has equal cunning to obi wan as "mind raping nihilus"When'd she "mind-rape" Nihilus? She convinced Sion to kill himself by manipulating his fears and emotional weaknesses - his desire for Traya's attention and the fact that he was in love with the Exile. Nihilus would've owned her if he hadn't accidentally tried to drain her, which basically crippled him.
and 50 years of combat experience as a general shows.Pulling more random figures out of your ass? This would put her at around Traya's age.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11Prove this. It's not common knowledge, it's pure speculation at best.
2. The exile learned all VII of the forms from the jedi masters he met during his travels. This is canon. Anything he knew from before would have compounded with what he learned after his exile. This would make him supremely proficient in one or two forms, depending on wether he was a guardian/consular/Sentinel, and knowing in the other five or six forms.
he only had two fights with anakin. one on mustafar, and one on the death star in ANH.Ludicrous amounts of sparring time?
the exile has years as a general too.Yeah. That Knightfall guy says she has, like, fifty. And you can't argue that; it's common knowledge.
This implies that the exile would have had to have been a part of the council for this to apply to him, and that he would have had to have been alive at the time of rots; both of which he wasn't.The "most cunning member" of a Council that included the likes of Mace Windu - recognized for his diplomatic ability on worlds as far-flung as Haruun Kal - and Yoda is pretty damn cunning.
And he doesnt have anything cunning under his belt like tricking/dun moching a sith lord into suicide.Um, he turned Asajj Ventress away from the Dark side. Not to mention that whole thing with noob-Vader on Mustafar.
Quinlan vos sparred with mace windu; this means nothing.As an experiment set up by Windu to test his true alignment, much like Luke would later do with his son.
And you just completely ignored the gist of his point; the people Obi-Wan has opposed or defeated, almost all in fair, unrestricted combat, eclipses the trio that the Exile went through. Just as Obi-Wan beat Maul through sheer circumstance in TPM, the Exile won all of her duels against the three elite Sith without ever doing so under her own skill and power. Obi-Wan's survived Ventress more times than one would care to count, defeated the new Darth Vader, and basically dominated General Grievous. Not to mention his pwnage of A'Sharad Hett on Tatooine some time later, when his skills had either leveled out or decayed somewhat.
to Spar and to lose and to bost on it is to be an ant on the ground and bost an encounter with a god when he steps on you. Are you implying that grevious and maul even close to compare to nihilus/sion?Nihilus would've crushed the Exile like your proverbial ant if he hadn't f*cked up, and Sion couldn't be defeated by her. Traya faced the same situation as Nihilus, only she decided not to doom herself immediately.
Also, obi wan has shown incredible weakness when it comes to defending against the force. In ROTS he is force choked, force pushed, and then force crushed by a big object in the middle of a duel.Against f*cking Count Dooku, who happens to be one of the most powerful Jedi or Sith in history. Yoda mused that "perhaps" only Mace Windu could stand against him on even ground, which was likely due to the nature of his Vaapad. Anakin won through a show of superior physical strength and resilience, but he would've had his ass handed to him in a Force battle.
Anakin also pretty easily force chokes him.He never Force-chokes him. What're you talking about?
Where the exile might not be able to get past his defenses in saber combat, he would just force him.Obi-Wan ripped a former Jedi Master's arm off with the Force, matched Anakin in a contest, and hurled the several hundred-kilogram Grievous a hefty distance with the most powerful Force-push seen on-screen.
1. The exile knows all VII forms, not to mention the knowledge of the forms he had before his exile. How is obi wan going to win this?Prove it.
Originally posted by Faunus
Prove this. It's not common knowledge, it's pure speculation at best.
Ludicrous amounts of sparring time?
Yeah. That Knightfall guy says she has, like, fifty. And you can't argue that; it's common knowledge.
Originally from wikipediea, although not canon however you slice it because its from the game if you play a male, although it obviously shows the intentions of the developers upon the exile's age: If the player decides to take the non-canon option and have the Exile as male, he can show a romantic interest in Mira, but she is unreceptive to his advances. She states that he is too old for her tastes, and that she doesn't want to compete with the Handmaiden and Visas for his affections, not to mention that she would prove too much for him to handle.
The "most cunning member" of a Council that included the likes of Mace Windu - recognized for his diplomatic ability on worlds as far-flung as Haruun Kal - and Yoda is pretty damn cunning.
I don't care about yoda or mace, show me some cunning feats and i will join your cause.
Um, he turned Asajj Ventress away from the Dark side.No, actually, I read Star Wars obsession and he did no such thing. Assaj was fighting him, and he pointed to the leaving dooku. When she ran after dooku, dooku's troops fired upon her. they then exchanged the following dialogue:
originally posted by asajj Ventress and obi wan:
Ventress: watch the center of the galaxy... ...it is the key to victory... defend coruscaunt from count dooku.
Kenobi: I thought you'd use your dying breath to curse us.
Ventress: Perhaps I have... ...or perhaps i just ... hate dooku more then you... Or maybe... you were right about me... all along...
Not to mention that whole thing with noob-Vader on Mustafar.
As an experiment set up by Windu to test his true alignment, much like Luke would later do with his son.
And you just completely ignored the gist of his point; the people Obi-Wan has opposed or defeated, almost all in fair, unrestricted combat, eclipses the trio that the Exile went through.
and this means that traya and Sion just let her beat them up/outsmart them? WRONG-O! The only one that could be debated as circumstantial was nihilus's death, and that was not nearly as circumstantial as Maul's. Nihilus was unable to use his singular force mastery against the exile due to the exiles unique passive ability, and was slain for it.
Just as Obi-Wan beat Maul through sheer circumstance in TPM, the Exile won all of her duels against the three elite Sith without ever doing so under her own skill and power.
Obi-Wan's survived Ventress more times than one would care to count, defeated the new Darth Vader, and basically dominated General Grievous. Not to mention his pwnage of A'Sharad Hett on Tatooine some time later, when his skills had either leveled out or decayed somewhat.Sion was defeated by her. Nihilus did no such thing. HE did his strategically best move, and the exile just happened to be gifted with a counter do it. What are you talking about, "the same situation as nihilus" she didn't force eat a hole in the force, she went up against him with her power, and in the end the exile made her see things her way, as long as we are comparing turning-to-the-lightside-abilities, and she repented.
Nihilus would've crushed the Exile like your proverbial ant if he hadn't f*cked up, and Sion couldn't be defeated by her. Traya faced the same situation as Nihilus, only she decided not to doom herself immediately.
yes, its from wikipedia, but its canonicity is not debatable:"Save me? You already have – it is enough what you have done, from now into the future."
¯The redeemed Kreia to the Exile[src]
The Exile found Traya in the core of the academy and bested her, slicing her remaining hand off. Despite so many betrayals, so many deceptions, the Exile forgave Kreia for everything that had happened.
Yoda mused that "perhaps"... need I say more? Anakin owned dooku too in sabers, and when you tell me he was one of the most powerful, show me feats and abilities. and it has been established in a different thread that Kreia would obliterate mace. dooku>mace>kreia>exile
Against f*cking Count Dooku, who happens to be one of the most powerful Jedi or Sith in history. Yoda mused that "perhaps" only Mace Windu could stand against him on even ground, which was likely due to the nature of his Vaapad. Anakin won through a show of superior physical strength and resilience, but he would've had his ass handed to him in a Force battle.
He never Force-chokes him. What're you talking about?
Obi-Wan ripped a former Jedi Master's arm off with the Force, matched Anakin in a contest, and hurled the several hundred-kilogram Grievous a hefty distance with the most powerful Force-push seen on-screen.whoopy tai ai ai for him. The exile killed nihilus, Matched sion in a contest, and owned three lightsabers controlled by a sith lady/former jedi master at the same time for some of skill. He was also a wound in the force, capable of destroying the force itself for force powers.
Prove it.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
i never said it was, because obviously, you (the common) do not know about it. If you had played Knights Of The Old Republic II, the Sith Lords, you would know that after the exile had found the seven jedi masters, they taught her/him their lightsaber forms. It is in the lightside female exile's cutscene, and therefore cannon. Do not accuse without knowledge.
What game were you playing? There was not seven jedi masters. The Exile found in her journeys Atris on Telos, Kavar on Onderon, Vrook Lamar on Dantooine, Zez-Kai Ell on Nar Shaddaa, and Lonna Vash on Korriban. I don't recall Atris teaching you any form and Vash was dead on Korriban.