Dark side exile (malachore state) vs Rots Obi wan

Started by Lord Knightfa112 pages
Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by Faunus
Self-ownage, much?

it wasnt like he was without close combat skill.

You do know that Traya only had one hand after Peragus, right?

yea so what? after this she had first one, and then three lightsabers in her command. With the tk ability to effectively fight with three lightsaber lacking hands, why would she need two to fight effectively with one lightsaber?
Exile is female.

this is a theoretical thread. Notice the title where it says "dark side exile"? It therefor does not matter wether or not i prefer to call the exile a female or not, unless i cite something only true for the male as cannon.

Prove that she'd ever mastered a form.

wel duh, i said knew/mastered. this means she might have known or mastered. She had a lightsaber, so obviously she would have been versed in at least one form, if not master in one.

Prove this. Kenobi went through more lightsaber duels in the Clone Wars than the next three Jedi combined.
Hoards of dark jedi in the malachor five academy? that is far more lightsaber duels then obi wan has ever been in, even if the sith that the exile defeated there were not of the calibre of the sith that obi wan dueled (exepting scion of course)
When'd she "mind-rape" Nihilus? She convinced Sion to kill himself by manipulating his fears and emotional weaknesses - his desire for Traya's attention and the fact that he was in love with the Exile.

I meant sion. This manipulation is an act of cunning and intelligence, and sion was also unable to breech the exiles defence.
originally posted by Sion I hate you because you are beautiful to me, and in that weakness lies death.

my point is, of course, that sion hated her more then he loved her.
Nihilus would've owned her if he hadn't accidentally tried to drain her, which basically crippled him.

Accident nothing, are you saying that nihilus can't even controll himself to chose the powers he uses, but just has random force drain spasms? He drained her on purpose, not knowing that the exile is a hole in the force. This was a strategic weakness.
Pulling more random figures out of your ass? This would put her at around Traya's age. [/B]

1. More?
2. How do you know she wasn't born a general?
3. Mira tells the male exile that he is too old for her, and obviously to old for him to be able to handle her, giving the apparent implication that he looks senile.

Faunus Boss

Your entire argument comes down to a few, miserable points, which I'll cover here:

1) There is no proof that the Exile had mastered even a single lightsaber form. The fact that she carries a lightsaber doesn't mean she's mastered it; by that logic, every Padawan in the Order was a master swordsman.

And apparently, you played the bootleg version of KotOR II. There were only three Jedi Masters who taught you combat forms, and even then you never learned all of them.

2) The entire point of discussing sparring was to refute your statement that Obi-Wan had only fought pre-suit Anakin once, when clearly he'd engaged him in sparring sessions many, many times. I was correcting you, not making a statement.

3) The Exile never "defeated" Sion or Nihilus in true combat. Sion simply couldn't be killed, and it's highly likely that the Exile would've simply been worn out and cut down in a real fight. Verbally convincing someone with serious psyche issues to lay down his weapon does not mean she's better than him. The situation is even more clear-cut for Nihilus; he didn't know the Exile was a wound in the Force, or else he wouldn't have been stupid enough to try and drain her. She got lucky here, and that's it. He would have completely destroyed her with his tremendous Force powers in an all-out battle.

4) You need to prove that the Exile fought through "hordes" of assassins and Dark Jedi, because a player with high stealth abilities could have easily just snuck past all of them. And since you can't, you need to concede the point.

5) You are making up the "50 year" figure, and you need to admit that and move on. Seriously, this isn't KotOR according to Knightfall. And the Exile "born" a general? Are you really that stupid? Please.

Then there's this, which makes absolutely no sense:
"Anakin owned dooku too in sabers, and when you tell me he was one of the most powerful, show me feats and abilities. and it has been established in a different thread that Kreia would obliterate mace. dooku>mace>kreia>exile"

You need to get your thoughts together before posting. Unless you meant that in reverse order, in which case I would be lead to the conclusion that you spent your elementary school years asleep. "Greater than" and "less than" aren't complicated. Add to that the fact that you're using an astoundingly shitty ABC(D) scenario, and you have one pathetic argument.

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Sabers: Draw. Both have faced lots of enemies and hard foes. The Exile defeated the 3 best Jedi in the Galaxy ( this is DS ending ), Sion at least 3 times and Traya. Kenobi defeated Grevious, Anakin and Hutt-guy. The |Exile might have the tactical advantage though, being The Revan's most trusted adviser, whereas Kenobi was more of a diplomat.

Force: Exile- Has shown high end force skills like Force Crush and Kill zone. As well a uniquie abilities

All-out: Epic fight yet Exile still takes it.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted
Originally posted by Faunus
And apparently, you played the bootleg version of KotOR II. There were only three Jedi Masters who taught you combat forms, and even then you never learned all of them.

btw, you pretty much covered the rest of my arguement, have yet do disprove it, and i am waiting. This part is true. I played a torrent from The One Eyed Dude. I then modified it from filefront.com (nothing storyline wise, just that you visit the empty temple at coruscaunt and learn stuff from jedi crap laying around.

Faunus Boss

You, apparently, can't distinguish between your points and mine. Read.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by Faunus
Your entire argument comes down to a few, miserable points, which I'll cover here:

1) There is no proof that the Exile had mastered even a single lightsaber form. The fact that she carries a lightsaber doesn't mean she's mastered it; by that logic, every Padawan in the Order was a master swordsman.


Neither is their any evidence that revan did either, for that matter. The fact that she has a lightsaber implies that she knows a form.

And apparently, you played the bootleg version of KotOR II. There were only three Jedi Masters who taught you combat forms, and even then you never learned all of them.

true, i did play a bootleg version, and i played it 6 months aggo. I looked at the game again, and She learned plenty of the more powerful forms, however, including soresu, makashi, form IV, and i think juyo.

2) The entire point of discussing sparring was to refute your statement that Obi-Wan had only fought pre-suit Anakin once, when clearly he'd engaged him in sparring sessions many, many times. I was correcting you, not making a statement.

well he said years of fighting, not sparring or practicing, so i was supposing he meant between rots and anh, not TPM and ROTS. And anyhoo, could i have a source saying he sparred with anaking?


3) The Exile never "defeated" Sion or Nihilus in true combat. Sion simply couldn't be killed, and it's highly likely that the Exile would've simply been worn out and cut down in a real fight. Verbally convincing someone with serious psyche issues to lay down his weapon does not mean she's better than him.[quote]
when they fought (i think it was four times he was replentished by the force after she critically damaged him), he didn't kill her or "cut her down" and she was able to stay alive easily enough to retain her wits and talk him into suicide. This show represents both great skill and intelligence.

[quote] The situation is even more clear-cut for Nihilus; he didn't know the Exile was a wound in the Force, or else he wouldn't have been stupid enough to try and drain her. She got lucky here, and that's it. He would have completely destroyed her with his tremendous Force powers in an all-out battle.


show me amaizing powers on the part of nihilus, and i will agree with you. All he has shown to the greatest ammount of my knowledge is basic TK and amaizing planetary drain. He still wouldn't be able to use the drain in an all out battle, unless you took away her "wound in the force" storyline device. I know that the drain represents significant force power, but i would like to see some other skills on his part before I concede. He certainly doesnt have good saber skills.

4) You need to prove that the Exile [b]fought through "hordes" of assassins and Dark Jedi, because a player with high stealth abilities could have easily just snuck past all of them. And since you can't, you need to concede the point.

Same thing with the star forge. People automatically add to the list of revan's accomplishments "fighting hordes of star forge powered darksiders" when maybe he snuck past all of them. However, gameplay mechanics are not cannon.
1. The sith assasins have great stealth skills, and probably would have been able to detect her (questionable)
2. The Dark Siders would have been able to feel her presence. They would be able to isolate it becuase as the ithorian leader guy on telos (not an impressive force user at all) said, he could feel her hurt.
3. besides. Wookiepedia is on my side.
the Exile proceeded to the Trayus Academy, where she battled the Sith assassins and confronted Darth Sion himself.

5) You are making up the "50 year" figure, and you need to admit that and move on. Seriously, this isn't KotOR according to Knightfall. And the Exile "born" a general? Are you really that stupid? Please.
😈 Prove she wasn't born a general. I actually meant that the exile seemed to be close to 50 years old from my take on the game. I did not mean that she was a general for 50 years *oops*

Then there's this, which makes absolutely no sense:
"Anakin owned dooku too in sabers, and when you tell me he was one of the most powerful, show me feats and abilities. and it has been established in a different thread that Kreia would obliterate mace. dooku>mace>kreia>exile"[quote] It was meant to say Dooku<mace<kreia<exile. sorry about that. and now its too late to edit it. 😮‍💨
[quote]
You need to get your thoughts together before posting. Unless you meant that in reverse order, in which case I would be lead to the conclusion that you spent your elementary school years asleep. "Greater than" and "less than" aren't complicated. Add to that the fact that you're using an astoundingly shitty ABC(D) scenario, and you have one pathetic argument. [/B]

Well, this is a weaker point of my arguement, and you can exploit it and leave the rest of my points alone Mr. ShatterPoint (no matter how cheap this would be). The fact is,
1. its a>b>c
2. Traya>mace is based on the outcome of a debate on a theoretical fight inside kmc that could still be continued if you desired to (actually a debate I won), and therefor isnt even close to cannon.
3. A typo killed it even furthur.

so im not even going to back this point of my arguement...

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
What game were you playing? There was not seven jedi masters. The Exile found in her journeys Atris on Telos, Kavar on Onderon, Vrook Lamar on Dantooine, Zez-Kai Ell on Nar Shaddaa, and Lonna Vash on Korriban. I don't recall Atris teaching you any form and Vash was dead on Korriban.

you are right. I forgot. I modified my game so that you would learn all VII forms when you only learned like 3 or 4. 😮

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Neither is their any evidence that revan did either, for that matter. The fact that she has a lightsaber implies that she knows a form.
Knows =/= mastered.

I'm not denying that she was proficient in at least one form, just pointing out that baseless assertions don't fly.

true, i did play a bootleg version, and i played it 6 months aggo. I looked at the game again, and She learned plenty of the more powerful forms, however, including soresu, makashi, form IV, and i think juyo.
Thing is, it depends on what the player did. A Consular, for example, wouldn't learn the same forms as a Guardian.
well he said years of fighting, not sparring or practicing, so i was supposing he meant between rots and anh, not TPM and ROTS. And anyhoo, could i have a source saying he sparred with anaking?
When They Were Brothers. There's a few panels of them sparring on the way to Boz Pity. Not to mention the description of their relationship in the RotS novel.
show me amaizing powers on the part of nihilus, and i will agree with you. All he has shown to the greatest ammount of my knowledge is basic TK and amaizing planetary drain. He still wouldn't be able to use the drain in an all out battle, unless you took away her "wound in the force" storyline device. I know that the drain represents significant force power, but i would like to see some other skills on his part before I concede. He certainly doesnt have good saber skills.
Well, the "basic" TK is an extraordinary and almost unparalleled display of power, as is the Force drain. He also managed to cut Traya off the from the Force with nothing but a wave of his hand.
😈 Prove she wasn't born a general. I actually meant that the exile seemed to be close to 50 years old from my take on the game. I did not mean that she was a general for 50 years *oops*
"Too old" is relative. A woman in her early twenties might consider a thirty-something man to be too old for her. In the end, 50 is not a canonically supported figure, not that it's really relevant.
Well, this is a weaker point of my arguement, and you can exploit it and leave the rest of my points alone Mr. ShatterPoint (no matter how cheap this would be). The fact is,
1. its a>b>c
2. Traya>mace is based on the outcome of a debate on a theoretical fight inside kmc that could still be continued if you desired to (actually a debate I won), and therefor isnt even close to cannon.
3. A typo killed it even furthur.
Mr. Shatterpoint, huh? Me likey.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by Faunus
Knows =/= mastered.

I'm not denying that she was proficient in at least one form, just pointing out that baseless assertions don't fly.


notice how i said "knows" instead of mastered or "knows/mastered"
Thing is, it depends on what the player did. A Consular, for example, wouldn't learn the same forms as a Guardian.

all to true. I played with ultimate balance as first a jedi guardain, and then when i got to pick my superclass i chose sith lord. Pluss i modded my game to learn all VII forms. I am in the midst of playing a lightside female sentinel without any modifications (just to see how fun the cannon ride is) and its boring as heck... give me a darkside male anyday and a team of both mira and handmaiden in dancer's outfits 😈

When They Were Brothers. There's a few panels of them sparring on the way to Boz Pity. Not to mention the description of their relationship in the RotS novel.

Thank you.

Well, the "basic" TK is an extraordinary and almost unparalleled display of power, as is the Force drain. He also managed to cut Traya off the from the Force with nothing but a wave of his hand.

I dont remember it happening that way, as she had her force powers and the like in the begining of the game. I thought they just surprised her, beat her up, and kicked her out.

"Too old" is relative. A woman in her early twenties might consider a thirty-something man to be too old for her. In the end, 50 is not a canonically supported figure, not that it's really relevant.
Mr. Shatterpoint, huh? Me likey.

She also said that he couldn't handle her. thats saying something for age. and no, its not relevant. :/ i didn't mean to compliment you, one who i hate so much... 😈

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

now i notice how your arguement is just disproving what I said. I think most of my original points remain intact. (that defeating sion is an impressive proof of intelligence and skill; that nihilus's only powerful attack was a force drain that wouldnt work on the exile anyway; That kreia was not holding back, and defeating her was an excessive proof of saber skill; and that she actually did fight through hordes of sith assasins and force users, and through these feats shows superior skill, cunning, and raw force power then kenobi)

So why do you think that obi wan would win, Faunus?