Hugh Ross: Creation as Science

Started by DigiMark0078 pages

Originally posted by ushomefree
My thread was posted to comment of a "specific" video presentation! When members of the forum chose not to watch the video presentation--and still make comments about the video they never watched--their points are shortsighted, not to mention ignorant! It ain't rocket-science material to grasp my point.

But yes, telling members of the forum to "Shut the f--k up," was (and is) totally uncalled for; I lost my cool.

Yet it's the same arguments as we've all seen before (most, at least). And not everyone has an hour to waste like this. You could easily throw us a bone and summarize the major points, so as to facilitate discussion. As it is, you've posted about a dozen threads identical to this one. It's "the boy who cried wolf" syndrome...so don't be shocked when most people don't give you the time of day when you routinely gloss over important counter-arguments to your points.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Digi... you never watched the entire video. Be honest.

You're right. I didn't. You have correctly found me out to be an ignoble man who lacks integrity. I mean, it's not like I have responses to the video that specifically show that I know what he's talking about at various points in the video. If I had that it would, ya know, totally prove this unfounded accusation wrong. So it's a good thing I don't. Otherwise you'd look pretty foolish here.

😐

Originally posted by ushomefree
Easy for you to say; the never, in any thread, has the entire forum been against you! Moreover, tracking back to previous pages do not end the former! The replies are posted like clock-work. It is too much to manage.

You asked for someone to watch it. I did, and said as much. You blew up. Clockwork or not, you had about 3-4 people telling you "uh. Digi watched it and responded" and somehow you A. don't believe me, and B. didn't even bother to browse a few pages to confirm it. That would take, what, 5 minutes at most? My heart bleeds for you. It's like you're trying to be the martyr here, when you really just need to grow up and learn to debate properly.

What is your question, Da Pittman?

Originally posted by ushomefree
What is your question, Da Pittman?
The only question that I have asked you in this thread is what you would think of Christian Evolutionist but that was more off topic than anything else (sorda)

Originally posted by ushomefree
Da Pittman-

I only provided a hyperlink to the video on "Google video." I cannot break it down into segments until I download it. Give me a break, man.

There is a time code on the video, you look at the current running time and say go to 12:50 into the video or what ever.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yet it's the same arguments as we've all seen before (most, at least). And not everyone has an hour to waste like this. You could throw us a bone and summarize the major points, so as to facilitate discussion.

That is not what I did; hence the (more than) 1 hour presentation! And you didn't watch it!!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
You're right. I didn't. You have correctly found me out to be an ignoble man who lacks integrity. I mean, it's not like I have responses to the video that specifically show that I know what he's talking about at various points in the video. If I had that it would, ya know, totally prove this unfounded accusation wrong. So it's a good thing I don't. Otherwise you'd look pretty foolish here.

That is beside the point; you didn't watch the video presentation. Period. (What exactly, "specifically," are you arguing about regarding the video presentation?) You do not know!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
You asked for someone to watch it. I did, and said as much. You blew up. Clockwork or not, you had about 3-4 people telling you "uh. Digi watched it and responded" and somehow you A. don't believe me, and B. didn't even bother to browse a few pages to confirm it. That would take, what, 5 minutes at most? My heart bleeds for you. It's like you're trying to be the martyr here, when you really just need to grow up and learn to debate properly.

You did not watch the video presentation; you said so yourself.

Just stop, Digi!

Originally posted by ushomefree
That is beside the point; you didn't watch the video presentation. Period. (What exactly, "specifically," are you arguing about regarding the video presentation?) You do not know!

If only he had made a point by point, specific analysis of his thoughts on the video. Maybe it would look like this and be found on pages one and two:

- Hmm. He starts by, in essence, billing the Bible as a valid science book. Yet this fails to account for numerous interpretations, language and translation differences, and the fact that people can "find" supposedly correct cosmology in the Bible, but a fair number of other passages are way off. It's a post hoc ergo propter hoc argument....assigning meaning after the fact instead of as a predictive agent, which would lend it credibility. It's no better than the idiotic Nostradamus apologists, who claim success by reinterpreting things to predict past events. Also, he incorrectly asserts that the Christian god is the only mythological god said to create something from nothing, when in fact they are littered throughout mythology, both predating and post-dating Christianity.

- Second Law of Thermodynamics argument?! *yawn*

- Also ignores theories that account for the existence of matter by entirely causal forces.

- He likes throwing out buzzwords of theoretical physics. He must've claimed about a dozen times that "all evidence points to a creator" or "scientists agree..." without saying why, explaining how, or naming the scientists and evidence for such statements. I haven't even heard an argument yet other than explaining the history of our cosmological knowledge then finding a Bible passage that fits it loosely.

- Calling creation a "miracle" and stopping at that as a final explanation is horrible. This is the antithesis of scientific inquiry.

- Still trying to sell the Bible as a literal science book. Lots of Bible passages are cited, yet all are fairly vague stretches to meet the analogies he sees with modern physics. I could find plenty of these in any religious text, so long as I'm allowed to use such vague criteria to match them as "factual."

- Hey! I heard the words "fine tuning!" I was wondering when he'd pull out the anthropic argument. Seriously, he was dying with the Bible as literal science book schtick.

...I'm 25 minutes in. I'm stopping due to my brain feeling like it's dying. If anyone else besides the dynamic evangelical duo watches it (not recommended, btw), let me know if I missed anything.

....

Anyway, I had fun with the first half. Second half commentary (sarcasm returns, btw).

- Directed panspermia. A fun theory, vaguely scientific. Aliens bringing life to earth. He enjoys destroying it as the straw man that it is, but then of course reverts to form and inserts god as the only other answer. Clearly he isn't versed with anything done in the past 25 years toward testing for the creation of the basic building blocks of life in earth's primordial atmosphere. I'll cite them if anyone's interested, since I don't want to be accused of saying things without evidence. His probability equations suffer from similar flaws, and the misunderstanding of natural selection that leads many people to see it as impossible (it is far from it).

- Thermodynamics again. Sheesh. Hasn't he read an evolution text in the past 50 years?! And of course, the only way to reconcile the law (to him) is the Bible's explanation. Not only was this dealt with, but it was explained a long time ago by a testable (and since confirmed) source.

- Bible as literal science again. Though he has to mire through metaphor in order to produce a ridiculous interpretation of passages to match our known history.

- Lulz at the "test" for creationism. It's a test to try to disprove evolution, which is what all creation "science" is. Ah, wait, maybe not....It attempts to find the point at which Adam and Eve were created. Yeah. Also, let's be clear, he is talking here about a variation on young earth creationism....Bible as literal fact, not metaphor, and is even further toward the extreme than ID. No one but the most religiously-blinded should ever listen to this man. He's a waste of time.

- Part of his "scientific" way that his theory could be falsified (which all science needs) is that if science showed that humans don't have "spirit attributes," and his other criteria actually have little to do with disproving a Christian god. The analogical gap between, say, the anthropic principle and believing the specifically Christian god are monumental.

- He ends by saying there's no reason for hostility in these debates. I disagree. When one pushes religious dogmatic faith as science, and perverts actual science, we should all be fearful and upset. This man, by the sounds of it, would not be opposed to handing out Bibles in classrooms. Creationists, IDers, crazy people....believe what you want, teach it to your kids, whatever. Just don't try to push your beliefs on the public.

Originally posted by ushomefree
You did not watch the video presentation; you said so yourself.

Just stop, Digi!

Were you really so dense as to miss him making a joke or is it just brain damage?

Okay dude, now I KNOW you're playing some kind of joke on us. Just admit it. No man can be so ignorant. This is some kind of bizarre prank.

duuuh

😂

...I'll admit I was hoping for it a bit, but I didn't honestly expect him to take it literally.

You can tell someone can't counter your points when they are reduced to saying you never made them.

Assuming for a moment that he isn't yanking our chain, this means that despite about a page of discussion between himself and others, he never once bothered to go back and even look for my posts (or the times they were reposted for ushome's benefit). It confirms everything I've said about him and his debating "strategy"...or it just means his laziness toward reading anything but his own words is epic.

...I'm still chuckling at this, but it just boggles my mind. For the first time, I'm actually starting to feel kinda bad for him if this is how he operates and this is an example of how his mind functions in a debate setting.

Guys, guys, guys... group hug? C'mon! hug

I'm starting to think that ush is a sock account for JIA, he just asked me to watch the video. 😱

No hug. Learn to debate.

But you realize now that I did watch the video, right?

And no one has watched it! C'mon, bro!!

blowup

Bed time; take care, all.

Originally posted by ushomefree
And no one has watched it! C'mon, bro!!
Really how old are you? 😕 You just have to be a troll like King said.

Seems weird, WD shows up and he goes bye bye 😉

I'm convinced that he still thinks I didn't. So rather than poking the dead horse for a few more laughs, I'll spell it out for him.

I have 2 posts on page 1 and 2 with specific comments on the video. It is detailed to the extent that it is obvious I watched the video. We have referenced them numerous times, and they've also been reposted for your benefit numerous times (most recently on this page by Sym). I watched it, I responded, I have proof. The post where I called myself ignoble and junk was clearly a joke. You ignored the probably dozen+ times you had where we spelled out the proof.

You need to learn to actually read peoples' posts, then respond to their points specifically with your own...not just ignore parts of it (or all) while you talk about whatever you want. You convince no one of anything, unless they already agree with you. It's the opposite of good debating, and is what you do most of the time I see you post.

....

Now, either you're really stupid, really lazy, or a troll. Each seems equally as likely to me at this point, but I got some laughs out of it so no hard feelings...except when you were rude to me and Pitt. That was just uncalled for. Though your "F*CK YOU, now let's hug" comments are bizarre on a new level. Again, either troll behavior or something bordering on bi-polar disorder. So either grow up, learn to debate and/or act respectfully, or seek help.

Originally posted by ushomefree
And no one has watched it! C'mon, bro!!

No one? Not being suddenly agreed with doesn't sit well with you?

Just think of Jesus and the whipping and the bleeding and the sudden condemnation of god, it'll help you.

Originally posted by Devil King
No one? Not being suddenly agreed with doesn't sit well with you?

Just think of Jesus and the whipping and the bleeding and the sudden condemnation of god, it'll help you.

😆 😐