Originally posted by Robtard
Isn't it obvious, then again, it was a rhetorical.Though it's very telling of people who are minded like SithSaber, that things like the economy, environment, current war(s) and world affairs come in far behind in importance to the personal rights of a small group.
You are correct about that. I have never understood why allowing homosexuals to get a marriage license would destroy the institution of marriage.
Originally posted by BackFire
Of course, that poll is over a month old. Polls are barely valid for 10 minutes after they're released, let alone for a month.
I agree there.
But it's still very telling that at ANY point in time, under ANY circumstances that McCain could beat Obama and Clinton COMBINED in liberal, secular New York.
It goes to show that Obama doesn't "have this in the bag" as many seem to think, and also that McCain has a very real shot at winning.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are correct about that. I have never understood why allowing homosexuals to get a marriage license would destroy the institution of marriage.
Because there isn't a single shread of reason how it would,t hat's why you don't nor shall ever understand.
It comes down to "we hate ****", nothing else.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
If you'd posted the whole sentence you'd see I was responding to Rob about his point that conservatives won't vote for McCain.Don't make it a Christian issue.
I didn't. You did; by saying these were the big issues on which conservatives stand. What you are also doing is saying that conservatives are voting on a platform and not the person, which I think is Robtard's point. They don't support McCain, they support a 2 issue platform.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
If you'd posted the whole sentence you'd see I was responding to Rob about his point that conservatives won't vote for McCain.Don't make it a Christian issue.
I never said that Conservatives wouldn't vote for McCain, in fact, there's around 35-40% of the nation that will simply vote Republican/Conservative, no matter who is running. McCain is pissing off many Conservatives, namely the far-Right.
I've read on more than one occasion, the far-Right saying they'd rather vote for Hillary or Obama, since they'd rather have the Democrats destroying the country between 2008-2012 and taking the heat, instead of the Republican party with McCain at the helm.
Originally posted by Robtard
Isn't it obvious, then again, it was a rhetorical.Though it's very telling of people who are minded like SithSaber, that things like the economy, environment, current war(s) and world affairs come in far behind in importance to the personal rights of a small group.
Especially when those larger issues effect everyone and are currently being used to rape all of us in the ass.
Originally posted by Devil King
I didn't. You did; by saying these were the big issues on which conservatives stand. What you are also doing is saying that conservatives are voting on a platform and not the person, which I think is Robtard's point. They don't support McCain, they support a 2 issue platform.
I won't disagree with you there. I merely was stating that Rob was wrong to think that conservatives will abandon McCain in the general election.
They won't, they'll vote for him over Obama.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I won't disagree with you there. I merely was stating that Rob was wrong to think that conservatives will abandon McCain in the general election.They won't, they'll vote for him over Obama.
So, in essence:
Originally posted by Devil King
That's pretty much all it's about for you guys, huh?
Originally posted by Robtard
So if Obama takes it in '08, which he has a very good chance of doing, since McCain is cutting his own throat by butt****ing his Conservative base, what will you say?
Originally posted by Robtard
I never said that Conservatives wouldn't vote for McCain, in fact, there's around 35-40% of the nation that will simply vote Republican/Conservative, no matter who is running. McCain is pissing off many Conservatives, namely the far-Right.I've read on more than one occasion, the far-Right saying they'd rather vote for Hillary or Obama, since they'd rather have the Democrats destroying the country between 2008-2012 and taking the heat, instead of the Republican party with McCain at the helm.
Guess I took that the wrong way then? Fine.
But I'd disagree with the rest of the post. Sure, party leaders may feel that way about McCain, but the general (conservative voting) public isn't going to let Obama have it so that he can "catch the blame" or whatever.
That's an interesting point though.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Guess I took that the wrong way then? Fine.But I'd disagree with the rest of the post. Sure, party leaders may feel that way about McCain, but the general (conservative voting) public isn't going to let Obama have it so that he can "catch the blame" or whatever.
That's an interesting point though.
If just 5% of the far-Right abandons him, by either not voting in '08 or voting for Obama out of some skewed logic, he would be seriously gimped. But this is a "what if".
Still, I think Obama has a greater chance in '08 that McCain, pissed off far-Right or no. In the debates, Obama will shine and pull the swing-vote.
My father-in-law who has voted Republican since the late 70's will be voting for Obama, he's also not a far-Rightwinger, just Right of center. Yeah, I know it's only an anecdote.
Originally posted by Robtard
If just 5% of the far-Right abandons him, by either not voting in '08 or voting for Obama out of some skewed logic, he would be seriously gimped. But this is a "what if".Still, I think Obama has a greater chance in '08 that McCain, pissed off far-Right or no. In the debates, Obama will shine and pull the swing-vote.
My father-in-law who has voted Republican since the late 70's will be voting for Obama, he's also not a far-Rightwinger, just Right of center. Yeah, I know it's only an anecdote.
Not sure about the 5% thing, because he carries moderates pretty well too. (conservative-moderates, anyway. Obama will get the left leaning ones)
I'd say if 15% or more of the far-right won't back him, then yeah his goose is cooked. (if he picks Huckabee, he'll get 'em all.)
I disagree on the debates, as I've said before. McCain isn't as showy or fast, but his experience will also be seen. Many will say that Obama has "won" this or that debate, but I think McCain will show himself more than capable of being president, and that will sway those who aren't already decided on voting for him. But one can never be certain.
I appreciate the perspective on your wife's father. Any personal account is valid, and is probably representative of a larger group of like-minded people. How large, well that's the question that'll be answered come November.
My point to all in the thread is this: I don't think Dems will get "trounced" as the thread starter suggested, but neither will the Republicans.
McCain is a darn good candidate, conservative where he needs to be (social issues, terrorism) liberal/independent where he needs to be (global warming, immigration), and is going to be far more of uniter than Obama.
Obama's strengths are many, and known to you, so I've no need to post them. (personally I find him intelligent and engaging. Choosing between Hillary and him, I'd pick him in a second)
This will be a close election, no doubt. I'm not going to declare Obama the instant winner by a long shot.
People hate the war, but other than that McCain has a pretty broad appeal: Far-right, right, right of center, center, and in a few cases left of center. (lieberman types)
Obama on the other hand has less appeal: far-left, left, majority left of center and a in a few cases center and right of center.
As I said, time will tell.
Okay, but by your own logic, it should be a sound victory for the democrats. In many polls Obama and McCain are close, with Obama having the advantage. But at this point the questions being posed to the people participating in the polls are as follow: Who would you vote for, Obama or McCain and Who would you vote for, McCain or Clinton? In both cases, the democrat is ahead. And if, as you say, most conservatives won't break with their party and the Clinton factor is removed, then the same applied logic would dictate that liberals will likely do the same. Once the Clinton and Obama supporters come together it's a very clear victory for Mr. Obama. (or Clinton or both)
Then Obama supporters have nothing to worry about, right?
Except when you get polls like the one I posted where Obama and Clinton COMBINED couldn't beat McCain (in New York, no less) if he picked a good VP like Condi Rice.
So polls aren't necessarily what we should rely on.
You're right: Conservatives will pick McCain, Liberals will pick Obama. (by and large conservatives outnumber liberals in the entire country)
The question is: Who'll get the moderates and independents?
You say Obama, I say McCain.
Again, time will tell.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Then Obama supporters have nothing to worry about, right?Except when you get polls like the one I posted where Obama and Clinton COMBINED couldn't beat McCain (in New York, no less) if he picked a good VP like Condi Rice.
So polls aren't necessarily what we should rely on.
You're right: Conservatives will pick McCain, Liberals will pick Obama. (by and large conservatives outnumber liberals in the entire country)
The question is: Who'll get the moderates and independents?
You say Obama, I say McCain.
Again, time will tell.
I am one of those independents, and I will make my choice based on the debates. I have to be honest, it doesn't look good for McCain, but you are right, time will tell.
If Sithsaber is correct, McCain should just come out and say "No abortions and no gays, **** those people!", that will seal the deal with the Conservatives.
He can then spend the rest of the debate trying to pull the moderates/indies with talks of the economy, environment, foreign affairs, Iraq war etc.
Originally posted by Robtard
If Sithsaber is correct, McCain should just come out and say "No abortions and no gays, **** those people!", that will seal the deal with the Conservatives.He can then spend the rest of the debate trying to pull the moderates/indies with talks of the economy, environment, foreign affairs, Iraq war etc.
I am looking forward to seeing the debates.