Originally posted by botankusI'll see your black civilians and raise you black soldiers.
Aside from the obvious......I think Mr. Lee didn't actually watch the films, for considering how tunneled his vision is, he would have surely noticed the two people up front in this scene from FOOF:
But apparently Spike Lee sees neither.
Originally posted by chithappensIf Clint Eastwood had wanted to make two films focused on black Americans or black Japanese during WWII in the Pacific he would have.
Apparently, I wasted my time in this topic. Guess I was right on the first page
FOOF came out like two years ago. Spike Lee comments on it now, when he's promoting a new movie. That's not shameless attention-whoring at all. I mean it's not like we're talking about the same guy who tried to sue over using the word "Spike."
Originally posted by chithappens
Apparently, I wasted my time in this topic. Guess I was right on the first page
You said it's a "circular argument with no middle ground". Yet, we see that Lee was wrong in his accusation. There were black soldiers shown in the movie, maybe they weren't the stars, but then again, the guys who raised the flag weren't black.
So I have no idea on what grounds your argument stands, Lee was wrong and the most likely scenario (as mentioned on the first page and beyond) for his crying was to use Eastwood's name as a crunch to draw attention to his movie. Which is both a dick and weasel move.
Originally posted by Robtard
You said it's a "circular argument with no middle ground". Yet, we see that Lee was wrong in his accusation. There were black soldiers shown in the movie, maybe they weren't the stars, but then again, the guys who raised the flag weren't black.So I have no idea on what grounds your argument stands, Lee was wrong and the most likely scenario (as mentioned on the first page and beyond) for his crying was to use Eastwood's name as a crunch to draw attention to his movie. Which is both a dick and weasel move.
Yeah, he wants the attention but the point is still there. While I don't agree with just pointing out Eastwood (as far as minority representation goes) there is a shortage of minorities in Hollywood getting quality roles. There are not a lot of recent newcoming minority actors or actresses (Denzel Washington, Will Smith, Halle Berry - all get proper kudos but there are few newcomers).
In Hollywood movies, you get one or two minorities in supporting roles but they will be damn near the only ones the entire movie (including extras). I don't look for it, but it hard not to notice when it's in damn near any picture that isn't directed by a minority.
It's weird cause it's subtle rhetoric that people just don't pay much attention to.
When I play Final Fantasy RPG games (I've played II, VI, VII, X, XII) , the only people I see with tans are natives who all wear those bear skin covers over their waist. The only minority not like that I recall is in FFVII, but he had to be a sloth with big muscles and bad speech.
Originally posted by chithappensYou probably should take that up with the JAPANESE creators and owners.
Yeah, he wants the attention but the point is still there. While I don't agree with just pointing out Eastwood (as far as minority representation goes) there is a shortage of minorities in Hollywood getting quality roles. There are not a lot of recent newcoming minority actors or actresses (Denzel Washington, Will Smith, Halle Berry - all get proper kudos but there are few newcomers).In Hollywood movies, you get one or two minorities in supporting roles but they will be damn near the only ones the entire movie (including extras). I don't look for it, but it hard not to notice when it's in damn near any picture that isn't directed by a minority.
It's weird cause it's subtle rhetoric that people just don't pay much attention to.
When I play Final Fantasy RPG games (I've played II, VI, VII, X, XII) , the only people I see with tans are natives who all wear those bear skin covers over their waist. The only minority not like that I recall is in FFVII, but he had to be a sloth with big muscles and bad speech.
Originally posted by chithappensI for one wasn't saying there isn't any point. I was saying Spike Lee is a shameless hack. The few seconds of black soldiers in Flags wasn't intended to dispel any particular point, other than Spike Lee's attention whore claim.
Yeah, he wants the attention but the point is still there. While I don't agree with just pointing out Eastwood (as far as minority representation goes) there is a shortage of minorities in Hollywood getting quality roles. There are not a lot of recent newcoming minority actors or actresses (Denzel Washington, Will Smith, Halle Berry - all get proper kudos but there are few newcomers).In Hollywood movies, you get one or two minorities in supporting roles but they will be damn near the only ones the entire movie (including extras). I don't look for it, but it hard not to notice when it's in damn near any picture that isn't directed by a minority.
It's weird cause it's subtle rhetoric that people just don't pay much attention to.
When I play Final Fantasy RPG games (I've played II, VI, VII, X, XII) , the only people I see with tans are natives who all wear those bear skin covers over their waist. The only minority not like that I recall is in FFVII, but he had to be a sloth with big muscles and bad speech.
At the end of the day it's a film industry - studios produce what will sell, or more accurately what they think they can sell to a general audience, and they are more than happy to trade artistic merit and historical accuracy in for whatever they perceive as marketability including whitewash entire casts.
It is both the studios' fault for holding this perception and the general public if they do indeed ascribe to this perception, or the "feel-good" answer a miscommunication in what the general public is willing to pay for - at which point fault cannot really be attributed to either party. As well as a self-perpetuating cycle in which studios won't take chances on minority leads or predominantly minority casts because they fear box office failure, with the lack of minority box office successes (due to the lack of) minority films as a major reason for their fear.
I don't see it so much as race as "the economy, stupid." Consumers vote with their wallets.
Also Academy Award winner Jennifer Hudson is a relative newcomer, and her predominantly black casted film's box office success will probably do more for the "black actor cause" than whatever Mr Lee decides to make about black soldiers in WWII if the latter doesn't make the same financial impact.
And as already noted, Final Fantasy is a silly example of any perceived Hollywood bias. The creators are Japanese and make video games. And it doesn't strike you as more odd that in a game made by Japanese i.e. Asians, FFVII, the only Asian character is a ninja, or that there are no Asians in FFVII (maybe Eurasians), FFIX or FFXII, and that the protagonist is generally a male. Are they being self-racist and sexist? Or are they just catering to a predominantly white male Western demographic?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I wasn't saying there isn't any point. I was saying Spike Lee is a shameless hack.At the end of the day it's a film industry - studios produce what will sell, or more accurately what they think they can sell to a general audience, and they are more than happy to trade artistic merit and historical accuracy in for whatever they perceive as marketability including whitewash entire casts.
It is both the studios' fault for holding this perception and the general public if they do indeed ascribe to this perception, or the "feel-good" answer a miscommunication in what the general public is willing to pay for - at which point fault cannot really be attributed to either party. As well as a self-perpetuating cycle in which studios won't take chances on minority leads or predominantly minority casts because they fear box office failure, with the lack of minority box office successes (due to the lack of) minority films as a major reason for their fear.
I don't see it so much as race as "the economy, stupid." Consumers vote with their wallets.
Also Academy Award winner Jennifer Hudson is a relative newcomer, and her predominantly black casted film's box office success will probably do more for the "black actor cause" than whatever Mr Lee decides to make if the latter doesn't make the same financial impact.
And as already noted, Final Fantasy is a silly example of any perceived Hollywood bias. The creators are Japanese and make video games. And it doesn't strike you as more odd that in a game made by Japanese i.e. Asians, FFVII, the only Asian character is a ninja, or that there are no Asians in FFVII (maybe Eurasians), FFIX or FFXII, and that the protagonist is generally a male. Are they being self-racist and sexist? Or are they just catering to a predominantly white male Western demographic?
"The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power."
- Malcolm X
I understand your points, and agree with them. In fact, I said almost the same thing verbatim about two hours ago to a friend (particularly about marketability, Asian features mysteriously missing from characters in an anime, and Jennifer Hudson is a not a good actress - she got it for a musical picture which is cool but I doubt we see her post 2009). However, the main point is about the psychology this creates in people.
The Sean Bell situation (three unarmed black guys shot at fifty times by cops) is unlikely to happen without this crazy ass psychology fed by the media. It goes two fold: Black men walk around thinking it's cool to walk around dressed as "thugs." Cop see thug attire and thinks "danger!" I walk around with khakis and a polo shirt with glasses on, around the corner from my college campus, and women clutch their purses when I pass by. It doesn't matter what the hell I have on: I'm a black man and I'm a threat. Where the hell does the idea come from? Media.
Charles Barkley for years has said that non-famous people just believe whatever the hell comes out the mouths of people on TV. There's a sad truth to that. It really shouldn't matter what the hell is seen on TV; it should not become anyone's personal mantra. Black people who do not interact with white people, or who never go outside the city, seem to think all white people shit gold. When I mention poor white people, they look at me like I got a booger on my teeth.
So yeah, it's just the industry being the industry, but it's hard to ignore how it affects society as a whole.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I for one wasn't saying there isn't any point. I was saying Spike Lee is a shameless hack. The few seconds of black soldiers in Flags wasn't intended to dispel any particular point, other than Spike Lee's attention whore claim.At the end of the day it's a film industry - studios produce what will sell, or more accurately what they think they can sell to a general audience, and they are more than happy to trade artistic merit and historical accuracy in for whatever they perceive as marketability including whitewash entire casts.
dont really see what the big deal is about "21" given that card counting was actually invented by Edward Thorp at MIT...a white professor....him, Bill Kapplan and John Chang are all roled into one with Kevin Spacey's character
not to mention that Kate Bosworth is playing effectively the role of Jane Willis who was white
mountains out of molehiles really
Well I could also use Christian rhetoric as an example: You die and stand on a cloud in this long ass line while some guy with a book of your sins stands there and decides if you go to heaven. If you are good in this life, you become an angel!
None of this is in the Bible, but it's plastered throughout the media, accepted and taught in the church like a fable within a fable.
The media "industry" is just being industry. 🙄
