Originally posted by janus77
because it was still not quite ready and, more importantly, because it required the kind of opening that WWH would not provide. Stark only managed to train the satellites on Hulk because Hulk asked - begged - Stark to help him stop himself (which is why it worked at all).
Hulk's power was out of control. He was still releasing more power than he ever had even when he was restraining himself. If the laser didn't have the power to stop him when he was weaker, it shouldn't have stopped him when he was uncontrollably stronger.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone1. Black Bolt didn't scream.
Ermm I think the scream drains BB of energy...I could be wrong but I dont think he can unleash indefintely.
2. The Skrull wasn't more powerful than Black Bolt. Or, at the very least, using only Blackagar's powers, he was < Black Bolt. The real Black Bolt has a 4-0 (iirc) record vs. Hulk, and a history of using his entire power set, not just his voice.
Side note, to bring Phantom Zone up to date:
Black Bolt has other powers.
3. Black Bolt's voice uses energy, but most certainly doesn't drain him. Not in the slightest. He's performed feats far greater than anything demonstrated vs. WWH, and wasn't drained.
4. Black Bolt, to the best of my knowledge, has NEVER screamed, in continuity.
Originally posted by redhotrash
Dr. Strange is the world's most powerful magician, he cant snap his fingers and send Hulk into Mephisto's realm or a dozen other places? How do you shrug off a teleportation?
still, that's a reach, and I accept that, what i'm saying is that Hulk has actually shown resistance to magic, that it is something within the bounds of his powers, that is all.
Originally posted by celestialdemon
Hulk's power was out of control. He was still releasing more power than he ever had even when he was restraining himself. If the laser didn't have the power to stop him when he was weaker, it shouldn't have stopped him when he was uncontrollably stronger.
Hulk's power was not - objectively - out of control, it was on the way to going out of control. Hulk was standing still and was clearly attempting to fight back the rage... which is something that wouldn't be the case if his powers were totally out of control.
Originally posted by janus77
it's all in how you choose to interpret what's shown. as far as I can see, without doubt Hulk wanted to be stopped, was standing in the beam and letting it hit him, was fighting to retain control over himself, all of which gives you quite a strong argument that Hulk was helping the satellites knock him out.Hulk's power was not - objectively - out of control, it was on the way to going out of control. Hulk was standing still and was clearly attempting to fight back the rage... which is something that wouldn't be the case if his powers were totally out of control.
I do agree that that's probably something open to interpretation. In my opinion, if his power was at an all-time high where not even he could fully control it, then a laser shouldn't have the power to stop him regardless of whether he was holding back or not.
At least Janus is looking at this intelligently, though I may disagree with some of his points. For instance I think Mephisto would love having the Hulk in his own dimension where he could finally deal with him using the full range of his powers.
I actually like this thread for one reason... Hulk fanboys can argue that Hulk takes a few wins against BB, which isnt completely out of the question. Granted BB should take 9/10, it wouldnt be shocking for a fluke win. However they quickly lose any credibility when matching him against Dr. Strange, who without extreme CIS (as recently seen) should take Hulk 100/100.
Originally posted by Galan007http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newavengersilluminati00ol6.jpg
Didn't BB scream during Illuminati, when he tore a hole through the fabric of reality? Or did he just 'speak' in that instance as well?
"Black Bolt... Speak."
Regardless, I wouldn't label it a scream... even if we have to resort to analyzing the artist's interpretation...
srug
Originally posted by redhotrash
Mind control.... lol. This is the guy whos stood up to Mephisto, Dorammu, and Shuma Gorath. To say "mind control" is all he couldve come up with is amusing. Maybe you should be the one checking out the respect threads. Dr. Strange couldve ended this entire event from his living room while wearing his bathrobe and fuzzy slippers.
First of all, it wasn't PIS that strange lost.
I am a huge HULK FAN, but the Hulk didn't win the fight either.
IMO, no one won the fight.
Strange was more or less trying to "reason" with the Hulk while in Banner's mind.
Banner turned into the hulk and broke his hands without strange expecting it.
For example, if me and you are good friends, but I am stronger than you.
I probably would try to reason with you first, before I went into a fight with you, because we are friends.
Strange didn't want to hurt banner in the first place.
So the story made perfect sense, because lets just say the Hulk pulled a fast one on Strange.
But it's not PIS at all, it's a very plausable storyline IMO.
As for Black Bolt losing to the Hulk.
The biggest thing that the WWH has going for him Vs blackbolt is his healing and durability factor.
IMO, this is what makes Thanos so tough to beat.
It's too darn hard to hurt him in the first place.
The Sentry was hitting WWH as hard as he can pretty much.
He was just that darn tough to hurt.
As for resisting against Bolts other powers.
The Hulk has resisted against the High Evolutionary powers also.
It's not PIS with the HULK IMO.
That's the whole point of the Hulk IMO.
He is suppose to be the guy that can pull off the impossible.
Some people just doesn't want to accept this, and they see him as a guy who can just punch stuff.
Your Dr. Strange explanation works only to a point. When trying to manipulate Hulk's mind, then yeah Strange was more or less trying to reason with him friend to friend. When Strange went through all the trouble of actually preparing the Zom bonding and what not, he knew he was preparing for a fight, and if written by a respectable writer who isnt catering to the "National Tresure" or "Indiana Jones" crowd, he'd have brought a lot more to the table than some cornball plan to physically match a guy whos main power is strength. Why even bother leaving the house when you can defeat the guy from your bedroom using a frigging oujia board and some tarot cards.
As for the Blackbolt thing, durablity shouldnt even play a part in this. Adamantium is unbreakable, but Magneto can bend it to his will. This should also hold true for BB's voice, which manipulated molecules. It shouldnt matter how powerful and durable he is or how quickly he heals if the very fabric of his being is pulled apart.
Originally posted by redhotrash
At least Janus is looking at this intelligently, though I may disagree with some of his points. For instance I think Mephisto would love having the Hulk in his own dimension where he could finally deal with him using the full range of his powers.
I actually like this thread for one reason... Hulk fanboys can argue that Hulk takes a few wins against BB, which isnt completely out of the question. Granted BB should take 9/10, it wouldnt be shocking for a fluke win. However they quickly lose any credibility when matching him against Dr. Strange, who without extreme CIS (as recently seen) should take Hulk 100/100.
What the hell do you mean? For starters you simply dont know tha characters well enough. Lets look at this for example.
Originally posted by redhotrash
That was the Maestro who could see Astral beings for one.
Secondly, how am I wrong? Its a MOLECULAR ATTACK.
And good point, BB's Scream >>> than a man made laser.
WRONG. Savage Hulk can see Astral beings and Hulk has survived molecular attacks. I dont know before you decide to judge people maybe you should know what the hell you are talking about as well. 🤨
Originally posted by redhotrash
Your Dr. Strange explanation works only to a point. When trying to manipulate Hulk's mind, then yeah Strange was more or less trying to reason with him friend to friend.
Yes then after that he tried mind-control. So its not like he just decided to get into a slugfest without trying anything else.
Originally posted by redhotrash
When Strange went through all the trouble of actually preparing the Zom bonding and what not, he knew he was preparing for a fight, and if written by a respectable writer who isnt catering to the "National Tresure" or "Indiana Jones" crowd, he'd have brought a lot more to the table than some cornball plan to physically match a guy whos main power is strength. Why even bother leaving the house when you can defeat the guy from your bedroom using a frigging oujia board and some tarot cards.
Maybe because he had already tried two other methods. Yeah it was such a rubbish plan it was working.
Originally posted by redhotrash
As for the Blackbolt thing, durablity shouldnt even play a part in this. Adamantium is unbreakable, but Magneto can bend it to his will. This should also hold true for BB's voice, which manipulated molecules. It shouldnt matter how powerful and durable he is or how quickly he heals if the very fabric of his being is pulled apart.
and I already told you Hulk has survived matter manipulation on many ocassions. 😐
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
1. Black Bolt didn't scream.
I think thats open to intepretation it most likely was more powerful than a whisper.
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
2. The Skrull wasn't more powerful than Black Bolt. Or, at the very least, using only Blackagar's powers, he was < Black Bolt. The real Black Bolt has a 4-0 (iirc) record vs. Hulk, and a history of using his entire power set, not just his voice.
I dont think you can prove that he was less powerful. He has a history of using his whole powerset, yeah if you're looking at his whole history sometimes all he does is use his strength and flight.
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Side note, to bring Phantom Zone up to date:Black Bolt has other powers.
Ive been reading marvel comics serioulsy since 1986 of course I know he has other powers. Thats not up to date thats history. 🙄
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
3. Black Bolt's voice uses energy, but most certainly doesn't drain him. Not in the slightest. He's performed feats far greater than anything demonstrated vs. WWH, and wasn't drained.
Like?
Hulk fanboys are the best. Better than Wolverine fanboys even.
So tell me about these molecular attacks hes survived. Give a few example. Closest thing that comes to mind is when he was shrunk by the High Evolutionary, which Im sorry but thats not even remotely similiar to BB yelling at you. And still you arent seeing the lagic gap in the Dr. Strange fight. If you are very versatile, and the other guy's main power is strength, are you going to forget everything else at your disposal and try to match him at his own game? Especially when that means risking your own life by channeling a potentially world destroying demon. Or do you use one of the other hundred ways Dr. Strange couldve won that fight, without having to get his hands dirty. The whole arc was stupid, simple as that.
Want yet ANOTHER example, take the Juggernaut fight. He moves, Juggernaut runs in a lake... and is apparently out of the fight? He couldnt, I dunno, stop, turn around, and jump out? Bad enough one of the most powerful telepaths in the marvel universe decides to basically let the big green A-hole beat up with students while hardly making an effort to stop him. And before you go on about "ZOMG Hulk has TP resistance", lets be serious. If Xavier were to go all out on Hulk, he'd shut him down.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneMore powerful than a whisper? Certainly.
I think thats open to intepretation it most likely was more powerful than a whisper.
But Black Bolt never screams... ever.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneWhen does he only use strength and flight...? 😐
I dont think you can prove that he was less powerful. He has a history of using his whole powerset, yeah if you're looking at his whole history sometimes all he does is use his strength and flight.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneI seriously doubt you could reference much more than strength, flight and the voice, without putting in research or at least a KMC post search.
Ive been reading marvel comics serioulsy since 1986 of course I know he has other powers. Thats not up to date thats history. 🙄
And the voice really shouldn't have to play a part in this.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneDestroying the negative barrier.
Like?
Etc.
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
More powerful than a whisper? Certainly.But Black Bolt never screams... ever.
Prove it.
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
When does he only use strength and flight...? 😐
Well for starters when he was using strength and flight against Thing.
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
I seriously doubt you could reference much more than strength, flight and the voice, without putting in research or at least a KMC post search.
Yeah really, im not sure if your aware of this but theres this series called Marvel Universe that came out in the 80s.........I know he can manipulate energy as well for example he was able to extinguish Johnny flames. He also uses the fork on his head to channel energy. 😐
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
And the voice really shouldn't have to play a part in this.
If you say so. To be quite honest im just arguing that WWH could take BBs scream dont really care about anything else.
Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Destroying the negative barrier.
Knocking Gladiator out.
Being channeled into a direct power feed to overload Doom with a Watcher's powers.Etc.
Well I dont know what you're talking about concerning Gladiator but all I saw was him whispering into into his ear and Koing him which is not actually greater than what he did in WWH.
Anyway Hulk has punched thorugh a time storm and broken indestructible items.
