ww hulk guantlet reviseted

Originally posted by redhotrash
Your Dr. Strange explanation works only to a point. When trying to manipulate Hulk's mind, then yeah Strange was more or less trying to reason with him friend to friend. When Strange went through all the trouble of actually preparing the Zom bonding and what not, he knew he was preparing for a fight, and if written by a respectable writer who isnt catering to the "National Tresure" or "Indiana Jones" crowd, he'd have brought a lot more to the table than some cornball plan to physically match a guy whos main power is strength. Why even bother leaving the house when you can defeat the guy from your bedroom using a frigging oujia board and some tarot cards.
As for the Blackbolt thing, durablity shouldnt even play a part in this. Adamantium is unbreakable, but Magneto can bend it to his will. This should also hold true for BB's voice, which manipulated molecules. It shouldnt matter how powerful and durable he is or how quickly he heals if the very fabric of his being is pulled apart.

durablity is a huge part of it, why do you think that Thanos is hard to beat. Yes he is smart also, but it is really tough to hurt him in the first place. WWH beating black bolt isn't PIS at all.

If this is suppose to be the strongest version of the hulk, than having him losing to Black Bolt would be PIS, and Marvel should just get rid of the Hulk and not write about him again if his strongest version can't be black bolt. There is no point to even write a story for him.

I understand your points about what you are saying for Strange, but if you think about it using your logic.

Than Strange really couldn't be in too many storylines in the first place.
He could just win the match on one page, and the storyline would be over.

They had to write something to keep the storyline going, instead of thinking too logically about what Strange "Should" have done.

If that's the case, there are so many characters that could snap their fingers and end the storyline.

That would suck and be boring.

Since the Hulk is a physical being, then that is what you have to center around to keep the story going.

IMO, I would have left Strange out of the fighting scenes and had him more of an adviser/stratagist.

Just My Opinion

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Prove it.

Yet he's going to destroy the moon with a scream?

It was stated that he would have destroyed the planet that they were standing on if he had openly spoken even a syllable when the Inhumans faced the Shi-ar.

But he's going to scream on the moon? And "knock off" something the size of "Rhode Island"?

HA.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well for starters when he was using strength and flight against Thing.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah really, im not sure if your aware of this but theres this series called Marvel Universe that came out in the 80s.........I know he can manipulate energy as well for example he was able to extinguish Johnny flames. He also uses the fork on his head to channel energy. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If you say so. To be quite honest im just arguing that WWH could take BBs scream dont really care about anything else.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well I dont know what you're talking about concerning Gladiator but all I saw was him whispering into into his ear and Koing him which is not actually greater than what he did in WWH.

Do you really believe that if Glads gets knocked out with a whisper, WWH's going to easily survive a real, true scream?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Anyway Hulk has punched thorugh a time storm and broken indestructible items.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
He refused to speak when faced with the destruction of his entire race and enslavement.

Yet he's going to destroy the moon with a scream?

It was stated that he would have destroyed the planet that they were standing on if he had openly spoken even a syllable when the Inhumans faced the Shi-ar.

But he's going to scream on the moon? And "knock off" something the size of "Rhode Island"?

HA.

Well thats funny he used what looked like more than a whisper and he was standing right next to Cyclops, he can obvoulsy concentrate the force

Originally posted by Bad Ash231

Here BB whispers and there are lots of people around and it doesnt do jack to the planet.

http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quicksilver0606jd1.jpg

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

In one of his very first appearances...

He's also able to manipulate matter, create GL-like constructs, remove a person's thought process, amp his stats to the uber levels... etc.

Yeah and? The point is that I know he has other powers.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

Well, he couldn't. Blackagar's whispers have caused volcanoes and earthquakes on the other side of the planet...

Is that your evidence? Serioulsy are you having a laugh? Well for starters a weaker version of the Hulk has survived stuff stronger than that. Wow and you're trying to educate me on characters. 😐

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

I was referring to the level of feat... KO'ing Gladiator with a whisper is much more impressive than Skrull-Bolt's yell at one of the Illuminati members... knocking them back a couple of feet...

.....oh.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

Do you really believe that if Glads gets knocked out with a whisper, WWH's going to easily survive a real, true scream?

Well for starters BB whispered in his ear. Hell Apocalypse survived what looked like more than a whisper anyway.

If all a whisper is going to do is create earthquakes on the other side of the plant then yes, because a waker version of the Hulk has survived much more force. 😐

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

I'm glad that that's relevant.

Er the point is that a weaker version of the Hulk has done similar stuff that BB has done with his voice via strength?

no way does BlackBolt have the raw power necessary to KO WWH/King Hulk.

simply put, the planet would be dust but King Hulk would be alright, prolly more pissed off and BB would be dead. no other result possible.

Sakaar was nearly totalled by an warpcore breach, Hulk survived unscathed. seriously powerful beings, Caira - the "Old Strong" - died, but Hulk was unscathed.

He would stop at Strange.

Strange have hold back before Hulk bruise his hands.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well thats funny he used what looked like more than a whisper and he was standing right next to Cyclops, he can obvoulsy concentrate the force

Here BB whispers and there are lots of people around and it doesnt do jack to the planet.

http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quicksilver0606jd1.jpg

Black Bolt's stray whisper has completely annihilated Attilan. He had to speak into the ground on another occasion to avoid damaging those around him. He's usually shown with some control over the direction of his voice... but being able to channel anything more than a whisper in a straight line? Nein.

I've seen the Apocalypse scan before, but it was most likely written by an author with no knowledge of how Blackagar's powers work.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah and? The point is that I know he has other powers.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Is that your evidence? Serioulsy are you having a laugh? Well for starters a weaker version of the Hulk has survived stuff stronger than that. Wow and you're trying to educate me on characters. 😐

Black Bolt inaudible syllables have caused planet-wide disasters.

They've powered a machine capable of tearing holes in reality through every single dimension in the 616 universe.

They've been channeled to overpower someone with the powers of a WATCHER.

They've KO'd Gladiator.

They've KO'd Hulk.

All WHISPERS or SYLLABLES.

I want you to work through this with me.

Whisper the word "no" so low that someone inches away from you wouldn't hear.

Then blast go scream at full tilt for a good second or two.

Do you think that the difference in power is less than the difference of durability between Gladiator and WWH?

Old school Hulk and current Hulk?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
.....oh.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well for starters BB whispered in his ear. Hell Apocalypse survived what looked like more than a whisper anyway.

If all a whisper is going to do is create earthquakes on the other side of the plant then yes, because a waker version of the Hulk has survived much more force. 😐

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Black Bolt's stray whisper has completely annihilated Attilan. He had to speak into the ground on another occasion to avoid damaging those around him. He's usually shown with some control over the direction of his voice... but being able to channel anything more than a whisper in a straight line? Nein.

I've seen the Apocalypse scan before, but it was most likely written by an author with no knowledge of how Blackagar's powers work.

👆

Let me repeat with emphasis.

Black Bolt [b]inaudible syllables have caused planet-wide disasters.

They've powered a machine capable of tearing holes in reality through every single dimension in the 616 universe.

They've been channeled to overpower someone with the powers of a WATCHER.

They've KO'd Gladiator.

They've KO'd Hulk.

All WHISPERS or SYLLABLES.

I want you to work through this with me.

Whisper the word "no" so low that someone inches away from you wouldn't hear.

Then blast go scream at full tilt for a good second or two.

Do you think that the difference in power is less than the difference of durability between Gladiator and WWH?

Old school Hulk and current Hulk?

👆

Should I start highlighting the word "whisper"? [/B]

You're wasting my time for 2 reasons:

1. Your are ignoring examples that dont fit your perception of what BB is capable of.

2. A weaker Hulk has feats comparable to the BB feats you have listed.

Please go away and pester somebody else.

Originally posted by SouthSpawn
durablity is a huge part of it, why do you think that Thanos is hard to beat. Yes he is smart also, but it is really tough to hurt him in the first place. WWH beating black bolt isn't PIS at all.

If this is suppose to be the strongest version of the hulk, than having him losing to Black Bolt would be PIS, and Marvel should just get rid of the Hulk and not write about him again if his strongest version can't be black bolt. There is no point to even write a story for him.

I understand your points about what you are saying for Strange, but if you think about it using your logic.

Than Strange really couldn't be in too many storylines in the first place.
He could just win the match on one page, and the storyline would be over.

They had to write something to keep the storyline going, instead of thinking too logically about what Strange "Should" have done.

If that's the case, there are so many characters that could snap their fingers and end the storyline.

That would suck and be boring.

Since the Hulk is a physical being, then that is what you have to center around to keep the story going.

IMO, I would have left Strange out of the fighting scenes and had him more of an adviser/stratagist.

Just My Opinion

Thats why Strange doesnt fight people like Hulk, he fights people like Mephisto and Loki, guys who can do more than just punch you. But you bring up the very point I was making. It would be boring. Instead lets have him play out of character and feed him to the Hulk. It completely craps on a established character, but hey it wouldnt be "Boring". It'd give the mindless hulk fanboys exactly what they want.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Thats why Strange doesnt fight people like Hulk, he fights people like Mephisto and Loki, guys who can do more than just punch you. But you bring up the very point I was making. It would be boring. Instead lets have him play out of character and feed him to the Hulk. It completely craps on a established character, but hey it wouldnt be "Boring". It'd give the mindless hulk fanboys exactly what they want.

Strange tried other methods apart from physical fighting so what the hell are you complaining about?

Are you seriously saying Strange stuck to character that fight? Have you ever read anything with him in it aside from Secret Avengers?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You're wasting my time for 2 reasons:

1. Your are ignoring example[B]s that dont fit your perception of what BB is capable of.

2. A weaker Hulk has feats comparable to the BB feats you have listed.

Please go away and pester somebody else. [/B]

2. A weaker Hulk has feats compared to a whisper, yes... and my whole last post was trying to get through your thick head that you've been arguing about a scream this entire time, and whether Hulk could survive. So once again, your points are irrelevant.

Ive heard enough nonsense on this thread. People are suggesting that Hulk could survive a planet destroying event, and essentially be floating through space hanging on to a piece of debris.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
1. Like? I justified that the Apocalypse feat doesn't express the norm. And, judging by your response, you know this and have no actual argument.

I posted more than one example I even tried to make that very clear. My other argument was also that BB would have expected Hulk to absorb the impact and thats what happened when BB whispered The Hulk he absorbed the impact of the whisper.

Now considering the fact that BB whispered the Hulk and **** all happened to the moon and WWH took it pretty well its not illogical to think that he screamed.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

2. A weaker Hulk has feats compared to a whisper, yes... and my whole last post was trying to get through your thick head that you've been arguing about a scream this entire time, and whether Hulk could survive. So once again, your points are irrelevant.

Why do you think I mentioned it was a WEAKER version of the Hulk?

Now lets have a look at one of those examples shall we.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist

They've been channeled to [b]overpower someone with the powers of a WATCHER.[/B]

Well you know what I think you had better go back and read the feat again because:

1. Reed asks him to shout.
2. Since the being had the power of the Watcher common sense dictates that he used more than a whisper since Hulk has survived a whisper.
3. He would not be able to do it without the machine.
4. There is not a big difference between a scream and a shout

Considering that a weaker version of the Hulk cracked a Celestial armours without assistance and 1 Celestial is more powerful than a Watcher, Hulk has a strength feat comparable to BBs shout. Professor Hulk was considerably more powerful than Savage Hulk and WWH is more powerful than Professor Hulk.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Ive heard enough nonsense on this thread. People are suggesting that Hulk could survive a planet destroying event, and essentially be floating through space hanging on to a piece of debris.

Do you know Hulk has already survived planet destroying forces. Now what? You want to complain about what the Hulk is capable of and you dont even know the character.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Are you seriously saying Strange stuck to character that fight?

Dont put word into mouth. You were complaining that he used only one tactic I pointed out to you he had other methods.

Originally posted by redhotrash

Have you ever read anything with him in it aside from Secret Avengers?

Yes I have Strange Tales, some Dr Strange issues etc.

Really this debate is getting to be just plain freaking ridiculous. Indeed WWH there was some PIS in WWH but trying to say that he should have bin unable to defeat anybody in the series and calling the entire series PIS is simply foolish and shows terrible bias.

IF i was to arrange it in order of difficulty id have change strange and the sentry because strange is definitely more powerful and also move BB up. That being said reagrding the rest of the characters id have to say that WWH can taking anyone on the list barring Dr strange of course. Really the only reason he won was because strange did not fight to his best. Besides that there was not really much PIS in the series.

To start with the black bolt incident, the blackbolt was a skrull first of all and really there was no proof that he screamed. Considering that BB has almost never screamed i consider a big stretch to assume the skrull screamed in that incident. Now to assume that the hulk should not have been able to take the scream really is wrong as it blatantly disregards what the writers of the series tried to do in both palnet hulk and WWH, which was portray hulk at a level much stronger than he has been portrayed in the past. Considering that WWH was the angriest version of hulk weve seen it is obviuos that he would be both stronger and more durable than previous hulks. Him taking the skrull BB whisper is not PIS in anyway as it just shows the improved durability and there were many other displays of this during the saga. Now to divert a little there really is no proof that WWH cannot take the reall BBs whisper. Using the past encounters between hulk and blacbolt is foolish because it also disregards the fact that hulk at this point was far stronger and more durable than in the past. Also some of the other feats he did in the arc show this. For example, in the past the durability gap between the hulk and silver surfer was quite a bit during planet hulk the hulk went through the same blackhole as the silver surfer and actually came out better off. Not to say that because of this one feat he is now more durable but it certainly shows the great increase as his durability was now shown to be compaable to the silver surfers. It is also imperative that we remember that the silver surfer has taken BB whisper before without getting koed. Another example is in the case of the sentry, In the past also the void was able to break all the hulks bones. Howver the hulk showed a great increase in durability during WWH as the sentry who is .void actually exhausted his enrgy reserves without actually koing the hulk. The last example of durability that points to him being able to take ythe whisper is the zom strange incident. Although i certainly dont consider hulk the winner of the fight and also dont believe he could evn win the fight, it is still example of great durability. Dr strange is IMO tied with Silver surfer as being the most powerful top tier.
Using his vast amount of powers he certainly should have taken out the hulk and him having to channel zom in the first place was PIS. Howver the hulk showed impressive durability during the zom strange fight.
Now although we really cant determine EXACTLY how powerful zom strange was, it quite simple to produce a range. Personally i seriously doubt that strange would channel an entity less powerful than him. However the zom entity being more powerful than strange is certified with stranges in ability to control the great amount of power. He certainly would not have had such problems doing so if the entity was less powerful. Further from the severe warnings strange received before channeling the power we can infer that the being was quite a bit more powerful than him. Obviously such a being is certainly above hulk and should be able to defeat him. Zom strange not defeating hulk is certainly PIS but hulks ability to take multiple blasts and hits from him and still keep fighting is not. What is PIS about this fight is strange suddenly begiining to struggle to control the power and thus giving the hulk the opportunity to attack. Also another aspect which is PIS is stranges focus on physically koing the hulk when there are a many other things he could have done. Howver the hulk taking multiple attacks from an amped up stranhge is certainly impressive and shows that his durability is certainly enough to take BBs voice.
I have seen an argument however that talks about BBs voice operating on the molecular level. Evn so the great durability of WWH would certainly play a part in determining his resitance to molecular tampering. This was shown in his fight against the vector who could repel matter and was actually able repel reality. The hulk howwver was able to survive this attack without being koed ( most of his flesh had been flayed off though just like in WWH) and WWH is considerably more powerful and more than that version of hulk. Regardless of its mode of operation the the hulk has the feats to prove that he can take it.

In regards to the rest of the people on the list

1. Sentry; Contrary to what some would beleive there was really no PIS
in this fight at all. Ive heard arguments that sentry did not use his speed but i will explain the major fault in this argument. The problem with such an argument is the fact that the sentry really does not have examples
showing his battle speed which is what would be needed for such a fight. He has shown great flight speed but battle speed wise he is lacking seriously. Therefore hitting the hulk a million times in a second or what not was never actually on th cards. Also considering that the sentry who is known mainly for his large enrgy output was constanly using enrgy attacks against the hulk, it cannot be said that he was not doing his best as he admitted he was going all out and this was proved when his enrgy ran out. With that being said id call an evn split with maybe a slight edge to hulk in a forum fight.

2.FF/prep; This is the fight the varies the most as it depends on the kind of equipment obtained by the FF during their prep time. Knowing the ability of reed, i dont doubt that with prep he could take out the hulk. Howwver going by the prepearations actually made in the comic its hulk for the win .

3.Xavier and jugs; WWHs mental resistance would help him alot against xavier and his cunning and superior intelligence make him BFR jugs.

4. Iron man; No explanation needed hulk wins all day.

Originally posted by ultimatethor

To start with the black bolt incident, the blackbolt was a skrull first of all and really there was no proof that he screamed. Considering that BB has almost never screamed i consider a big stretch to assume the skrull screamed in that incident.

Bare in mind im not arguing that WWH can for 100 percent certainity take BBs scream. I am arguing that it is a reasonable possibility. Heres my reasons.

1. BB was a skrull but not all skrulls are weaker than the people they impersonate.
2. I dont think its a stretch that he screamed because:
a) It looked like a scream
b) WWH just survived a whisper unscathed its not illogical to think that he would use a scream because BB realised he would need ALOT more power.
c) I think when WWH said "I want to hear you scream" this is what the writers were implying

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Bare in mind im not arguing that WWH can for 100 percent certainity take BBs scream. I am arguing that it is a reasonable possibility. Heres my reasons.

1. BB was a skrull but not all skrulls are weaker than the people they impersonate.
2. I dont think its a stretch that he screamed because:
a) It looked like a scream
b) WWH just survived a whisper unscathed its not illogical to think that he would use a scream because BB realised he would need ALOT more power.
c) I think when WWH said "I want to hear you scream" this is what the writers were implying

Well i understand what your trying to say. Howver im still not to convinced it was the full scream because of the damage done. I would think that blacbolts scream would be able to do more than what happened in the comic. It might have been more than a whisper but IMO not up to the full scream

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Well i understand what your trying to say. Howver im still not to convinced it was the full scream because of the damage done. I would think that blacbolts scream would be able to do more than what happened in the comic. It might have been more than a whisper but IMO not up to the full scream

Thats fair enough. At least I think it could have been a low showing for the scream. I personally think its open to opinion people can say it was or it wasnt but I dont think its fair to rule out the possibility.

Hulk survives planet break attacks? Lets take a quick look at this first off. Stick with me or skip to the next paragraph if you are having a hard time following this. How many nukes do you figure it would take to destroy the planet? More than 100 easily. Now, keeping in mind that 100 nukes couldnt destroy the planet, Maestro, formerly one of the most powerful Hulk versions, was more or less taken out by 1 gamma bomb. Now lets pretend WWH is say 10 times stronger than Maestro, which I dont believe he is. How much more powerful is a gamma bomb than a nuke? MAYBE twice as powerful. So by that logic, 20 nukes should be able to kill WWH, which is far from a "earth destroying" force. As a side note, I vaguely remember BB's full force scream being compared to something along the lines of 100 nukes. Regardless he hasnt been specifically shown to have screamed in continuity so thats mostly speculation. However he definately did not scream or even shout in the WWH "fight". He is shown whispering, with the word "enough" appearing in very tiny print.

Moving on, the BFR on Juggernaut was a joke. He runs into a lake? Yeah alright explain that. And granted Hulk has telepathic resistance, but Xavier isnt a ordinary telepath, and hes stated with confidence that he could have put the majority of the secret wars participants to sleep. Does Charles really strike you as being so arrogant to make that claim without the ability to back it up?

I dont particularly have a problem with the Fantastic Four or Iron Man fights, as they do have many variables attached to each. However Sentry I can dispute as well. People who move at light speed should NOT be getting clocked by people who cant break the sound barrier. Now granted writers do that often unfortunately. Superman seemed to forget most of his powers when fighting Doomsday, which is somewhat similiar to this.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I posted more than one example I even tried to make that very clear. My other argument was also that BB would have expected Hulk to absorb the impact and thats what happened when BB whispered The Hulk he absorbed the impact of the whisper.

Now considering the fact that BB whispered the Hulk and **** all happened to the moon and WWH took it pretty well its not illogical to think that he screamed.

Why do you think I mentioned it was a WEAKER version of the Hulk?

Now lets have a look at one of those examples shall we.

And as to the latter... what?

The only thing that that would prove is that a skrull's scream is <<<< the real thing.

I concede that if there was any chance of a scream, it's just because they couldn't/didn't replicate Blackagar's full power.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well you know what I think you had better go back and read the feat again because:

1. Reed asks him to shout.
2. Since the being had the power of the Watcher common sense dictates that he used more than a whisper since Hulk has survived a whisper.
3. He would not be able to do it without the machine.
4. There is not a big difference between a scream and a shout

Considering that a weaker version of the Hulk cracked a Celestial armours without assistance and 1 Celestial is more powerful than a Watcher, Hulk has a strength feat comparable to BBs shout. Professor Hulk was considerably more powerful than Savage Hulk and WWH is more powerful than Professor Hulk.

He was hesitant to do anything, thinking that Reed's machine wouldn't work. Then when he did, the panel read that he spoke for what looked to be a single syllable.

And since when did ABC logic, Hulk's strength, and nonexistant shouts have anything to do with the argument at hand about Hulk's durability?

Furthermore, lest you think that old Hulk is to a whisper what WWH is to a scream... that's still completely irrelevant.

And if you do think that, we might as well end the discussion here.

Jesus christ... give your logic a once-over before hitting that "submit reply" button.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Well you know what I think you had better go back and read the feat again because:

1. Reed asks him to shout.

You might want to look at it again. Reed says "Blackbolt, speak."