Indy 4 Ending Discussion - Spoilers.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
I really must say: What ending?

Seriously. There was no gain from the actual adventure.

Raiders: The Ark is gained, though the government spirits it away.
Temple: The Sankara stone is returned to its rightful place, as well as the children.
Crusade: Though it was slightly shoehorned in, Indy "gained" his father through the Grail.

In this? The Skull is returned to its rightful place, but it, the "throne room", the ship, all of the archaeological wonders, even the temple are all lost. And before someone argues that knowledge was what was gained, no, because nobody would believe the group anyway.

Once the ship activates, the film just kind of grinds to a halt, then the marriage scene is tacked on.

I'm a scifi fan. I love aliens and space and spaceships. But it didn't feel right here. Perhaps if the thirteen skulls and their skeletons had been said to be carved as a monument to their "gods", leaving it up to the viewer to decide if they had been actual alien skeletons or something more earthly, I could have stomached it. I even would have believed them being some sort of compendium of knowledge then. But resurrecting an alien and then having that alien serve no real purpose didn't sit well with me.

well, its actually the same thing as raiders when you think about it. The nazis thought that they could rule the world with the ark and the russians thought that with the skull. In the end though, they both wound up dying... the only real difference is that the ark got stored in a never ending warehouse, while the skull just got destroyed

Originally posted by Spartan005
well, its actually the same thing as raiders when you think about it. The nazis thought that they could rule the world with the ark and the russians thought that with the skull. In the end though, they both wound up dying... the only real difference is that the ark got stored in a never ending warehouse, while the skull just got destroyed

The skull, or indeed anything in IV, not so much.

PLus they didn't gain anything on a personal level... well, except family... but the Skull itself didn't have anything to do with that.

The Skull itself was used poorly. At least the Ark, and the holy grail you had the anticipation of finding out how they work and it happened towards the end of the movie, at the climax of the movie. TOD and KOTCS found theirs too early and made it partially pointless to watch afterwards which is probably why I found the first half up to the point where they found the Skull better than the second half.

But then in ToD Indy had more difficulties getting it out. they found the Skull Temple fairly easy. Heck, mumbling Hurt had all teh answers. Henry Sr. also had ansers except he didn't know what they meant. Indy had to find out the hard way. Again, the ot's work better.

Aliens... haha.

Originally posted by queeq
But then in ToD Indy had more difficulties getting it out. they found the Skull Temple fairly easy. Heck, mumbling Hurt had all teh answers. Henry Sr. also had ansers except he didn't know what they meant. Indy had to find out the hard way. Again, the ot's work better.

True, personally though Raiders and Last Crusade worked better. It wraped up the story more efficiently. I did enjoy the "escape" in ToD though, much better than the race to get to the temple in KOTCS

ToD had quite a few things going for it.

I agree.

💃

*Settles down to a nice bowl of chilled monkey brains*

Sweet.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Id have to say that the Phantom Menace is a good comparison in terms of damage done to both sagas.

But it is the better film.

Anakin didn't survive a nuke in a fridge, and Jar Jar wins over the Gophers and Monkees, as his inclusion in the films was more subtley done and his character did actually have something even vaguely connected to the plot.

Both films were highly anticipated with quasi-religious zeal and a feeling of letdown dogs both, but 1st watches wise, Menace owned Indy 4.

But we had Lightsabres, A glaxy to explore, the force, Darth Maul, young Kenobi, Young Palpatine and all that awesome shit.

Whereas in Indy 4, only 2 characters from the originals survive and 1 and a half of those suck in this movie, serving the purpose of cynically being there to pass the torch or just guardianise the new more inferior Jones.

TPM was a beginning.
The movies that followed TPM got better.

The same can not be said for the beginning factor,
and the sequel factor in this new leg of the franchise is weak looking judging on what we have seen and detracted more from the original films than it reinforced in any positive way, imo.

First of all, nothing is subtle about Jar Jar. Nothing. The "highlights" of TPM you mentioned all describe the other movies. It's a new galaxy filled with foreign spacecraft, planets, weapons, and creatures. It doesn't matter that TPM is a beginning factor. Even though AOTC and ROTS are better, TPM should be able to hold its own against the other movies and it just doesn't, not imo.

Okay, I'll give you the fact that the monkeys were stupid. But they were no more stupid than the eyeball soup in TOD, or the fact that from the clue "name of God," Indy will not only conclude the word to spell is "Jehovah" but to spell it with an "I" in TLC.

TPM made the Force too scientific, relied so much on CGI it forgot about everything else, and gave the highest-anticipated character (Darth Maul) next to nothing to do. Oh, and if a movie is going to show a Force-created "Christ-child," it should be someone a little less annoying than Jake Lloyd.

Back to SW again?

Why, what else ya got? 🙄

Originally posted by willofthewisp
First of all, nothing is subtle about Jar Jar. Nothing. The "highlights" of TPM you mentioned all describe the other movies. It's a new galaxy filled with foreign spacecraft, planets, weapons, and creatures. It doesn't matter that TPM is a beginning factor. Even though AOTC and ROTS are better, TPM should be able to hold its own against the other movies and it just doesn't, not imo.

Okay, I'll give you the fact that the monkeys were stupid. But they were no more stupid than the eyeball soup in TOD, or the fact that from the clue "name of God," Indy will not only conclude the word to spell is "Jehovah" but to spell it with an "I" in TLC.

TPM made the Force too scientific, relied so much on CGI it forgot about everything else, and gave the highest-anticipated character (Darth Maul) next to nothing to do. Oh, and if a movie is going to show a Force-created "Christ-child," it should be someone a little less annoying than Jake Lloyd.

Hey I didn't say TPM was perfect, just a better movie than KOTCS.
Those things annoyed me too, yes. The positioning of the movie in the saga did dictate pace as it was all being about beginnings to a six episodic arc intended by Lucas to be viewed from 1-6 order..

No truly great saga blows its load on the 1st movie.

(Hence my disregard of the Matrix saga and the Indy saga-as-it-now- stands)

And yes they had the elements I listed in the other films.
It was the Star Wars universe, after all, you expected it to be set in New York...? 😛 Its a pity that the successful elements from the Indy movies werent applied well in this latest movie, it might then have not sucked so hard..

I hate Jar Jar more than anyone should 9 years on.
(Just ask Queeq how much posting time I lovingly devoted to tearing that mother a new one onthis very forum.)

But Jar Jar was rapier-like, merely "only-just-detectable" in terms of subtlety and quality when faced in the smackdown against John Hurt (The real actor successor to Binks) and his gangs of pixelated rodents and simians. And after all those years of expectation, it took me months of rewatches to be as disappointed as I was with it.

With KOTCS, it took me one watching.

'Nuff Said. 😛

MAybe you just got used to detecting rubbish new versions of old classics.

I think it's hard for any series' sequels to live up to the original. When you're watching a movie for the first time, everything is new. You're introduced to a new world and don't know what to expect. When you hear that a second movie is going to be made, there's a lot of hype, whether it's Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Indy, SW, or POTC, etc. But you're already familiar with the universe of it. You know the characters. So this time around, you're a little more used to things and usually even very good sequels aren't considered on par with the original movie.

That said, I really enjoyed Die Hard 4.0 though. I mean, it had a bit of an bsurd scene with a fighter jet, but it was all good fun and they managed to both enhance McClane's character, avoid clichés (not one complete yippekayee mofo) and bring him up to date to the times. It kinda showed: it can be done.

Fair play.

Agreed on Die Hard 4.0.

It was a ray of hope that had me anticipating a barn-stormer with Indy 4.

Bummer. 😛