Originally posted by GN.
He dident fought yaweh. Beyonder causes multiversial destruction not on purpose by just being angry.Show me a feat thats greater then the Beyonder.
Zero hour. Crisis On infnite Earths. Lucifer. World's funnest. Alien entity formed the omniverse. beyonder never laid claim to the multiverse. only his own universe how ever big.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Zero hour. Crisis On infnite Earths. Lucifer. World's funnest. Alien entity formed the omniverse. beyonder never laid claim to the multiverse. only his own universe how ever big.
Beyonder IS a multiverse WAAAY bigger then Marvel's. Thats a way greater feat then creating one. Humans can create a house, they cant be as strong and big as the house they can create.
Originally posted by fangirl101Lt has always been multiversal correct? He is the judge of the multiverse right? So if he is afraid of the Beyonder wouldnt that make him at the very least a multiversal threat? Answer honestly for your own sake.
Zero hour. Crisis On infnite Earths. Lucifer. World's funnest. Alien entity formed the omniverse. beyonder never laid claim to the multiverse. only his own universe how ever big.
I wouldn't say he's smarter, just so much more powerful, its like fighting the Titans when they began leaching off of The Presence's power, and Lucifer had to go in the time stream and kill them before they were a threat, and sit on the Throne. The Beyonder is a "God" that never got matured, he still would win...
lol, let me remind you that the only way beyonder could have detsroyed the entire multiverse was by creating a space time anomoly where time would be destroyed and the entire universe would go with it. and in his conversation with reed richards he himself admitted that even HE could not survive the destruction of time and would be destroyed along with the main marvel multiverse. that is it, a suicide move to destroy himself and the multiverse.
on the other hand lucifer survives in the void with no concepts. he is his own light and CREATED the concept of time out of NOTHING in his multiverse and even set its gradient to be steeper than that of yahweh's multiverse. in feats lucifer has done more. and if you actually READ lucifer, youd know that lucifer threatened yahweh by assasination and got him to no leave his creation. furthermore, micheal in primum mobile was the only thing holding the entire multiverse together after yahwh had left primum mobile. lucifer also took a multiverse shatterning and multiverse creating explosion at point blank and wasnt even scrathed. even the friggin basanos cudnt do much against him which were the very concept of predestination set by yahweh since predestination as with all other concept worked by EQUATIONS and its impossible{in the words of the basanos} to to put INFINITE in any equation{referring to lucifer's infinite will} lucifer threatened to kill the near megaversal death{the endless} who admitted htat he cud do it, and killed fenris, who was DESTRUCTION itself embodied WITHOUT having access to his full powers. he even reversed the destructive events caused at the creation place yygdrassil which wud have shaken all of creation and damaged more than one multiverse and destoryed all three. heck he was the one who KILLED micheal demiurgos. the second god.
Originally posted by kevdudeI still think the battle for outright supremacy would be between Thanos with the heart vs classic Beyonder. Both have such power would be quite fun to see this but of course we never will. You know who I think is the true supreme being out of these 2. Obviously the top 2 outside of the presence and TOAA.
I wouldn't say he's smarter, just so much more powerful, its like fighting the Titans when they began leaching off of The Presence's power, and Lucifer had to go in the time stream and kill them before they were a threat, and sit on the Throne. The Beyonder is a "God" that never got matured, he still would win...
Originally posted by leonheartmm
not to forget people, he DID outsmart and defeat yahweh, a being stronger than classic beyonder.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
lucifer himself is compareable easily, he rules his own multiverse and has created teh original one and he can do it again and again, not ot menion that neither the void nor the demiurgic multiverse shattering explosion even scathed him at ground zero.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
he is effectively beyond multiversal level. the near megaversal death has no hold over him, nor does destiny anymore.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
he wud be the godhead in primum mobile with all of yahweh's might if he had chosen to be but he didnt like the idea. he was so unique and powerful infact that yahweh himself admitted that he had done what even yahweh cud not, and wanted to amalgamate with him which he straight out refused.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
before, having read half of lucifer, id have said beyonder wins. but any1 who has completely read the entire thing and his appearances in sandman can never say that beyonder has the upper hand here. lucifer wins. no1 beats the devil. not to mention, beyonder is THE most gullible/insecure/misguided character in marvel and hence the easiest for lucifer to use his own power againt himself{which is mostly how the llightbringer works}
Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol, let me remind you that the only way beyonder could have detsroyed the entire multiverse was by creating a space time anomoly where time would be destroyed and the entire universe would go with it. and in his conversation with reed richards he himself admitted that even HE could not survive the destruction of time and would be destroyed along with the main marvel multiverse. that is it, a suicide move to destroy himself and the multiverse.on the other hand lucifer survives in the void with no concepts. he is his own light and CREATED the concept of time out of NOTHING in his multiverse and even set its gradient to be steeper than that of yahweh's multiverse. in feats lucifer has done more. and if you actually READ lucifer, youd know that lucifer threatened yahweh by assasination and got him to no leave his creation. furthermore, micheal in primum mobile was the only thing holding the entire multiverse together after yahwh had left primum mobile. lucifer also took a multiverse shatterning and multiverse creating explosion at point blank and wasnt even scrathed. even the friggin basanos cudnt do much against him which were the very concept of predestination set by yahweh since predestination as with all other concept worked by EQUATIONS and its impossible{in the words of the basanos} to to put INFINITE in any equation{referring to lucifer's infinite will} lucifer threatened to kill the near megaversal death{the endless} who admitted htat he cud do it, and killed fenris, who was DESTRUCTION itself embodied WITHOUT having access to his full powers. he even reversed the destructive events caused at the creation place yygdrassil which wud have shaken all of creation and damaged more than one multiverse and destoryed all three. heck he was the one who KILLED micheal demiurgos. the second god.
No, that was not the only way he could destroy the multiverse. Hell, it was just a side effect if he did mess with the time lines. He could just EREASE the multiverse. And before you shout hyberbole everyone believed it and shitted his pants even the LT.
First Lucifer defeated Yaweeh now its " threatened" him. Whats next?
All the people your talking about are under LT so the feats are way less.
Originally posted by kevdude
I wouldn't say he's smarter, just so much more powerful, its like fighting the Titans when they began leaching off of The Presence's power, and Lucifer had to go in the time stream and kill them before they were a threat, and sit on the Throne. The Beyonder is a "God" that never got matured, he still would win...
P.S. If you need the scans, I got them. Or you can just read the issue where he battles the Celestials (one example I can think of out of the top of my head).
Originally posted by Air LegendCould you post the scans.
The Beyonder is definitely smarter than Lucifer. He can choose to be omniscient when he wants to, just like Yahweh, and in these threads both characters fight at maximum capabilities. Beyonder wins this in a curbstomp.P.S. If you need the scans, I got them. Or you can just read the issue where he battles the Celestials (one example I can think of out of the top of my head).
He did never defeat YHWH.
YHWH isn't supreme, while Beyonder was supreme.
yahweh is supreme in vertigo only second to the coomic book writers. beyonder isnt supreme either, currently wanda from house of m has done nearly enough. the one above all is supreme{i.e. the comic book writers}. and if you remember correctly, beyonder is DEAD. and lucifer DID defeat yahweh and usurp hima nd threaten him and "IN YAHWEH'S OWN WORDS" surpassed him. or havent you read lucifer.
No, Lucifer never created a Multiverse. He simply shaped it, it was Michael's power that Lucifer used to shape into it.
Another fact is, Lucifer can't create energy, simply manipulate it.
no he cant create MATTER out of nowhere and only matter at the MULTIVERSAL scale. his lighbringer powers ARE energy and the creation of time and fire which animate and shape the world. understand this, it is only the entire matter and space at a MULTIVERSAL level that lucifer can not create out of nothing, other than that he can pretty much create them as he sees fit as he often does. dont base your judgement of lucifer on just sumthing you might have read on a bio off wikipedia or sumthing. lucifer was half teh creating power for the first MULTIverse and the second MULTIverse. and as shown by elaine bellock who go the demiurgic power{equal to lucufer's lightbringer powe} and still beaing weaker than lucifer was able to shape it without lucifer's help{who just stayed to watch} into a universe by herself alone, lucifer can do the same as he grew more from the beginning of the series. so even that theory goes.
Actually, he rejected YHWH's offer. He is a subject to destiny.
huh what the heck are you talking about, he rejected yahweh's offer to FUSE with him. he destroyed the chackles of detiny in yahweh's own words. and he did it when he usurped the plan of fenris/silkman/lillith/yahweh/the basano's child etc to leave ceration to be and detsory it and when he made elaine take the throne of god as opposed to HIMSELF as god had intended. he is not subject to destiny.
Yes, he rejected YHWH's offer. So he's as weak as he was in the begining of th series.
WHAT are you talking about. he gave AWAY his lightbringer powers to mazikeen before he left. he only had his wings and infinite will when he went into the oid. he had done what yahweh cud not and usurped his creators purpose and become his own author and yahweh , wanting to learn of that knowledge and fealing desired to fuse with him, but lucifer refused, how on EARTH does that make him weak?
I see a lot of bias but no official facts suporting it.
that paragraph was not meant to convey facts if you missed it.
Originally posted by Air Legend
The Beyonder is definitely smarter than Lucifer. He can choose to be omniscient when he wants to, just like Yahweh, and in these threads both characters fight at maximum capabilities. Beyonder wins this in a curbstomp.P.S. If you need the scans, I got them. Or you can just read the issue where he battles the Celestials (one example I can think of out of the top of my head).
Do you have a scan where he says he can choose to be omniscient? If he was truly omniscient before he put limitations on himself and came into the Marvel Universe wouldn't he have already known about it and not be so surprised? Besides Lucifer doesn't really care for his Father who prides himself on being all knowing, Lucifer has a famous saying "you'd think the point of being Omniscient is knowing when to stop".
Quanchi you think Thanos wins right?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
[B]yahweh is supreme in vertigo only second to the coomic book writers. beyonder isnt supreme either, currently wanda from house of m has done nearly enough. the one above all is supreme{i.e. the comic book writers}. and if you remember correctly, beyonder is DEAD. and lucifer DID defeat yahweh and usurp hima nd threaten him and "IN YAHWEH'S OWN WORDS" surpassed him. or havent you read lucifer.
Lucifer did nothing inportant to Yahweh. Post scans.
Originally posted by GN.
No, that was not the only way he could destroy the multiverse. Hell, it was just a side effect if he did mess with the time lines. He could just EREASE the multiverse. And before you shout hyberbole everyone believed it and shitted his pants even the LT.First Lucifer defeated Yaweeh now its " threatened" him. Whats next?
All the people your talking about are under LT so the feats are way less.
defeated doesnt mean KILL. he defeated him by setting things up in the way taht he did. he threatened to kill him if he left to which yahweh took notice and stayed to here elaine's anf lenneth's case, he DEFEATED yahweh at his own game and forced him into a corner where it was HIS desired outcome that came out and not yahweh's, thsat is what deafeted means.
not considering PIS which is impossible given copyright laws, LT hasnt done things compareable to lucifer. he is a protector of the multiverse and was visibly afraid of he beyonder who COULD destroy a multiversE{in the same wasy that micheal can destroy the all multiverses in vertigo, ofcourse marvel only has one multiverse and beyonder wud have died if he destroyed it while micheal can do it again and again and again} .
it WAS the only way he cud destroy the multiverse which is why he desisted after reed richards explained it to him and asked him whethere even HE cud survive the destruction of time itself and he admitted that every moment must preceed the next.
Originally posted by leonheartmmPost scans.
defeated doesnt mean KILL. he defeated him by setting things up in the way taht he did. he threatened to kill him if he left to which yahweh took notice and stayed to here elaine's anf lenneth's case, he DEFEATED yahweh at his own game and forced him into a corner where it was HIS desired outcome that came out and not yahweh's, thsat is what deafeted means.not considering PIS which is impossible given copyright laws, LT hasnt done things compareable to lucifer. he is a protector of the multiverse and was visibly afraid of he beyonder who COULD destroy a multiversE{in the same wasy that micheal can destroy the all multiverses in vertigo, ofcourse marvel only has one multiverse and beyonder wud have died if he destroyed it while micheal can do it again and again and again} .
it WAS the only way he cud destroy the multiverse which is why he desisted after reed richards explained it to him and asked him whethere even HE cud survive the destruction of time itself and he admitted that every moment must preceed the next.
Originally posted by kevdudeI think Thanos with the heart would win yes.
Do you have a scan where he says he can choose to be omniscient? If he was truly omniscient before he put limitations on himself and came into the Marvel Universe wouldn't he have already known about it and not be so surprised? Besides Lucifer doesn't really care for his Father who prides himself on being all knowing, Lucifer has a famous saying "you'd think the point of being Omniscient is knowing when to stop".Quanchi you think Thanos wins right?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
defeated doesnt mean KILL. he defeated him by setting things up in the way taht he did. he threatened to kill him if he left to which yahweh took notice and stayed to here elaine's anf lenneth's case, he DEFEATED yahweh at his own game and forced him into a corner where it was HIS desired outcome that came out and not yahweh's, thsat is what deafeted means.not considering PIS which is impossible given copyright laws, LT hasnt done things compareable to lucifer. he is a protector of the multiverse and was visibly afraid of he beyonder who COULD destroy a multiversE{in the same wasy that micheal can destroy the all multiverses in vertigo, ofcourse marvel only has one multiverse and beyonder wud have died if he destroyed it while micheal can do it again and again and again} .
it WAS the only way he cud destroy the multiverse which is why he desisted after reed richards explained it to him and asked him whethere even HE cud survive the destruction of time itself and he admitted that every moment must preceed the next.
Who in the first place gave Lucifer the letter of passage and LET him leave and go in the void??