Classic Beyonder vs Lucifer

Originally posted by leonheartmm
well everythign is copyright infringement these days, and ud have to be blind to think it proves me wrong. i have clearly shown how lucifer directly affected yahweh and how what i was sayign before was true while gn said that lucifer had no affect on yahweh whatsoever.

😐

How the F does the last pages of Lucifer show he affected Yahweh? You meant to say that it's possible to go outside of Yahweh's plan, right?

Moreover, those pages do give insight that Yahweh is not supreme. I was going to make those scans and post them on the Thanos HOTI vs Presence thread, but I was too lazy.

it gives insight that the only thing more supreme than yahweh are the writers{the forces tha gave birth to yahweh} . and yahweh himself says that lucifer surpassed his FUNCTION which is WHY yahweh is so interested in him.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
it gives insight that the only thing more supreme than yahweh are the writers{the forces tha gave birth to yahweh} . and yahweh himself says that lucifer surpassed his FUNCTION which is WHY yahweh is so interested in him.

Thats not that inpressive at all tbh.

huh, lucifer trancending the boundries that even yahweh cudnt isnt impressive? lucifer threatening yahweh and hence cornering him into a decision isnt impressive?? come on now, admit it, you hadnt read lucifer and now have to eat your words GN on how lucifer hasnt had any significant affect on yahweh or how he has defeated yahweh.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
huh, lucifer trancending the boundries that even yahweh cudnt isnt impressive? lucifer threatening yahweh and hence cornering him into a decision isnt impressive?? come on now, admit it, you hadnt read lucifer and now have to eat your words GN on how lucifer hasnt had any significant affect on yahweh or how he has defeated yahweh.

Originally posted by Mindset
The fact that Yahweh had boundaries seems to suggest implicitly that he isn't omnipotent.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
huh, lucifer trancending the boundries that even yahweh cudnt isnt impressive? lucifer threatening yahweh and hence cornering him into a decision isnt impressive?? come on now, admit it, you hadnt read lucifer and now have to eat your words GN on how lucifer hasnt had any significant affect on yahweh or how he has defeated yahweh.

When did he threaten him?? With the sword? That was meaning for him to let go of the 3 creations and let Elaine take charge (something he already was ready for and knew). He gave Lucifer the letter of passage in the first place, wanted some randomness to happen within his Great Plan. He had an effect on him, feeling sorry for him is the reason he came around, wishing to solve the differences between them.

^he didnt desire randomness. the letter was a trap. lucifer outsmarted it. you have to understand where yahweh is coming from. he cudnt surpass the boudries put on him due to that fact that he was CREATED by the WRITERS. it doesnt mean he is not omnipotent. anything that is in comics will ALWAYS be second to the writers. by your arguments, there wudnt BE any omnipotence in ANY media simply because it has an author. that to me is nonsensical, yahweh was omnipotent INSIDE the comic. but neither the beyonder nor the heart of the universe with thanos as its holder were omnpotent even INSIDE teh comic as i have explained before. that is where the difference in power levels comes from.

yahweh's role was to create then leave for one of his sons to take it up. he cudnt escape it and tried to undermine lucifer who was working against this PLAN. he was always gonna LEAVE creation but what he did when he did so was upto him, destroy or let persist. lucifer FORCED him to make that choice in his favour and WHY is every1 conveniently avoiding the threat. yahwh made it clear that he wud only listen to two but lucifer forced his word in breaking yahweh's rule and MADE him choose a third option against which yahweh sadly accepts commenting on lucifer knowing him all too well. also the threat of revenge must have been real enough to yahweh to desist from his chosen coarse. this tells of lucifer;s actual power. yahweh let randomness occur because lucifer's destruction at the hand of the basanos had NOT gone as planned and lucifer WAS succesful in creating his own multiverse which god{through micheal} demanded him to give back to yahweh. god himself spoke of his plan when commenting on how strongly lucifer had woven the strands of his own destruction. but he also has a longing side, for his son to acheive what he cud not, freedom. it is twisted, but this is the reason he wanted in the end to fuse with lucifer, so that he wud understand how lucifer did it as he cud not seperate himself from the purpose {boundries} put on him by the truly supreme entity, the artists. it was due to the very fact that he cudnt escape that he followed his role nearly to the end in trying to destroy lucifer. because sentimentally, he was proud of lucifer, prouder than anything else.

Yea, sounds like Yahweh isn't omnipotent.

If Lucifer could surpass boundaries that Yahweh couldn't, then Yahweh isn't omnipotent.

yahweh WAS. omnipotence was ITSELF boundry introduced byt the supreme writers. lucifer surpassed even that and turned into sumthing completely unique which even yahweh lusted after.

also, wud sum1 please be nice enough to give me an actual EXAMPLE of what they WOULD consider an omnipotent being in comics.

Show me a scan of the "boundry". True omnipotent has no limits, weakness or anything. All powerfull. TOAA for example.

The boundaries your talking about was made by The Presence/Yhwh himself, he made everything and everything is 'His' so he can't seperate himself from his creation's. He left because he wanted to experience some randomness, he told Elaine that and the only thing keeping him around was picking on who would rule after he would leave, he picked both Michael and Lucifer but both didn't want the job and was trying to force God to return, and of course he knew he put things in motion for a 3rd option (Elaine) who would rule in his spot. No other voices was heard, the sword was used to show him another way, cut himself away from the 3 creations and dumping them together. I don't think he's talking about the 'writers' which is very lame, he's talking about the void... he is Omnipotent

Originally posted by GN.
Show me a scan of the "boundry". True omnipotent has no limits, weakness or anything. All powerfull. TOAA for example.

is this perhaps bitterness at being scans before which proved my point and disproved yours that you are asking for sumthing that obviously can not be shown in a scan? its a simple theme that is revealed int he coarse of the comic. there is NO1 in comics which can folow in your definition of omnipotence. TOAA is a THEORISED entity in marvel never seen. the closest is bunny eternity showing to reed richards thatthe WRITERS were TOAA. in any case, no such entity exists INSIDE comics for sure{any comics} and neither the heart of the universe nor the beyonder have power comparing to true omnipotence.

i can post the scans, when i return

Originally posted by kevdude
The boundaries your talking about was made by The Presence/Yhwh himself, he made everything and everything is 'His' so he can't seperate himself from his creation's. He left because he wanted to experience some randomness, he told Elaine that and the only thing keeping him around was picking on who would rule after he would leave, he picked both Michael and Lucifer but both didn't want the job and was trying to force God to return, and of course he knew he put things in motion for a 3rd option (Elaine) who would rule in his spot. No other voices was heard, the sword was used to show him another way, cut himself away from the 3 creations and dumping them together. I don't think he's talking about the 'writers' which is very lame, he's talking about the void... he is Omnipotent

wow, you just restated you OPPINION which i had just disproved in the last post. doesnt help in debating does it{kinda why i hate the comic book forums and left in the first place}. he isnt omnipotent if we go by YOUR example. he was created by forces outside himself and he admits it. that in the STRICT sense is not omnipotence. he is omnipotent in his own WORLD. and lucifer surpassed his purpose, sumthing yahweh cudnt do. there are no other influences in the void and since he is omnipotent INSIDE teh comic book, he is obviously referring to the WRITERS when he says that he was shaped by forces OUTSIDE himself since i dont see any other super gods running around in the void.

and all of my old arguments remain, reread them if you want to debate this further.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
is this perhaps bitterness at being scans before which proved my point and disproved yours that you are asking for sumthing that obviously can not be shown in a scan? its a simple theme that is revealed int he coarse of the comic. there is NO1 in comics which can folow in your definition of omnipotence. TOAA is a THEORISED entity in marvel never seen. the closest is bunny eternity showing to reed richards thatthe WRITERS were TOAA. in any case, no such entity exists INSIDE comics for sure{any comics} and neither the heart of the universe nor the beyonder have power comparing to true omnipotence.

You disaproved nothing off me. A theme isent a feat. I ask for scans since i keep seeing people disaprove you with ease just like kevdude just now. TOAA is the company itself.

Im still waiting for the great feats (and prove) that trumph the Beyonder his feats.

surviving multivers shattering explosions and creating half of two multiverse amon many many other things puts lucifer above LT. i disproved your entire claim by posting those scans.

toaa is the artists.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
wow, you just restated you OPPINION which i had just disproved in the last post. doesnt help in debating does it{kinda why i hate the comic book forums and left in the first place}. he isnt omnipotent if we go by YOUR example. he was created by forces outside himself and he admits it. that in the STRICT sense is not omnipotence. he is omnipotent in his own WORLD. and lucifer surpassed his purpose, sumthing yahweh cudnt do. there are no other influences in the void and since he is omnipotent INSIDE teh comic book, he is obviously referring to the WRITERS when he says that he was shaped by forces OUTSIDE himself since i dont see any other super gods running around in the void.

and all of my old arguments remain, reread them if you want to debate this further.

You never disproved anything, ask you this, you say he sadly approved of Lucifer sending a 3rd message, does he 'look' sad to you when he takes the sword away from the doll???? You do know your Vertigo though which is sadly missing on this forum.. 🙂

Originally posted by leonheartmm
surviving multivers shattering explosions and creating half of two multiverse amon many many other things puts lucifer above LT. i disproved your entire claim by posting those scans.

toaa is the artists.

That isent greater. Beyonder TANKED while not even expecting the strongest attacks of the Monecule Man, a being STRONGER then LT. Only his clothes where a little damaged. The Monecule Man a being FAR weaker then the Beyonder fixed multiversial damage with a finger flick while just talking. And show me a scan of the multiversial explosion/creating multiverses.

You will have to come with something better then that.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

lol,
let me remind you that the only way beyonder could have detsroyed the entire multiverse was by creating a space time anomoly where time would be destroyed and the entire universe would go with it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

and in his conversation with reed richards he himself admitted that even HE could not survive the destruction of time and would be destroyed along with the main marvel multiverse. that is it, a suicide move to destroy himself and the multiverse.

Beyonder never admitted anything, about anything.

I have that issue, you mis-interpreted that, big time.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

surviving multivers shattering explosions and creating half of two multiverse
amon many many other things

puts lucifer above LT.

Beyonder created a Reality quintillions of times bigger
than the entire infinite prime Multiverse.

So, that's like quintillions of MultiverseS. 🙂

Originally posted by leonheartmm

beyonder isnt supreme either

Beyonder was Supreme when he entered the Marvel Reality. (a drop of water)