Originally posted by Val-E-DooshI love Johns, probably the best superhero writer in the business, but I'm not sure he's suited for Batman. Van Sciver however, will fit anywhere he wants to.
And then in 2010 you can look forward to Batman: Rebirth written by Geoff Johns with art by Ethan Van Sciver.
People who thought this was the ultimate end of the story or Batman were just depriving themselves of enjoying a great story that started two years ago. Morrison story continues though. "Not now. Not EVER".
How awesome is Tony Daniel on Batman? Perfect mix of grittiness and epic shots. I'm hoping he stays with Morrison on Batman for the foreseeable future.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Thief villain chick that he's know for years. Nice try to minimize the Selina character. JJ tragic story like many other previous love stories does NOT make it above the rest. So many women have come to Bruce's arms with tragic tales and goodwill...yet this chick makes the sale? Yes, very completely out of character for Bruce NOT to investigate the woman...then bring her into the batcave and show her the secrets in the cave. VERY clever Bruce....An unnamed villain that no one even heard of comes out of nowhere and all of sudden infiltrates the Batcave and hack the batcomputer. That better be one Super-power guy with a super mind to be capable to infiltrate the Batcave...hack the Batcomputer...then destroy everything and walk away like nothing. Thanks for remind me that the Batcave and the batcomputer are also are out of charater as well.
Yeah, Hush does plastic surgery...that's what he is...a skill surgeon. Is he hacking computers? Is he taking over the world? No, he is good at what he does and that is cut people up.
When Hush infiltrated the Batcave RED ALERT lights flash all over Gotham. Nightwing gets there along with Robin...in minutes...yet this guy...crafted out of Morrison's mind not only parades the batcave...hacks the batcomputer...and then walks out?
Gee, the Batcomputer is the most important computer in the DCU. With information to JLA, JSA,TT, Outsiders, and so much more....yet for some reason when Dr. Hurt is dancing around NO ONE shows up on time????
YEAAAHHHH....that's a good eye!
He should be walking around with his police radio. Calling for backup when things go wrong...oh, but why would a police veteran would need back up? I mean...an investigation is going and there is no need to secure the premises...typical police procedures...Gordon really had me there.
Yes, I prefer HOH over R.I.P. it's simple, fun, and exciting...not over pretentious such as the case with R.I.P.
Sue me.
I think it's best to just wait for the ending of R.I.P.
Don't want to degenerate this discussion. It would be wrong.
Selina=villain=thief=revealed herself in Hush=Hush=Loeb=poop. That's just simple math.
Dini may be so infatuated by black hair comic chicks like Zatanna and Catwoman but Morrison takes different approaches to writing. For one the whole JJ love was an act, revealing his secret to her was all part of Bruce's plan, which even further shows how prepared he was. Very clever indeed!
The Black Glove's been attacking Bruce for a long time. Since 52, since the isolation chamber experiments, and since the beginning of Morrison's first Batman issue. He set up the BG as a force of nature which even Bruce couldn't fully comprehend but was prepared to do battle with. He didn't just appear out of nowhere like the villain of month scenario which Hush did. Since the BG almost managed to kill Bruce twice before RIP started and infiltrate most aspects of his life, I'm not going to worry over the small details on how they managed to hack the Batcomputer without triggering any alarms.
The BG is, by Batman's own words (in 674), "an invisible, implacable foe who calculated my every weakness? Who had access to allies, weapons and tactics I couldn't imagine. An adversary whose plots and grand designs were so vast, so elaborate, that they went unnoticed until it was too late." The Black Glove>Batcave/Hush.
Gordon went to Wayne Manor expecting to talk to Bruce Wayne and ended up in house where his every move was being monitored and was forced into the BG's game. Yeah, just whip out the radio and call for help and hope to not get shot in the face with an arrow. It probably inadvertently showed Gordon's intellect by playing El Sombrero's game rather than trying to run for it or call for help, risking certain death.
Originally posted by jumpmannI waited for the ending to respond to this, mainly because of all the convoluted thoughts.
No, I think you waited till you finally could pull some snappy comeback in the back of your head.
Originally posted by jumpmann
Selina=villain=thief=revealed herself in Hush=Hush=Loeb=poop. That's just simple math.
No, that's just simple opinion. But of course you're more than welcome to it. Look at mine on R.I.P.
Originally posted by jumpmann
Dini may be so infatuated by black hair comic chicks like Zatanna and Catwoman but Morrison takes different approaches to writing. For one the whole JJ love was an act, revealing his secret to her was all part of Bruce's plan, which even further shows how prepared he was. Very clever indeed!
No, Dini is infatuated with telling interesting stories of Batman. He's known the characters very well and is well acquainted with their relationships to the central character which is Batman/Bruce.
You're saying that the JJ love was an act. That comes AFTER the fact. You didn't know of it...no one knew of it prior to the conclusion. That is a straight cop-out on the spot! Everyone in DCU boards and Newsarama have discuss how completely out of character Bruce is been. Having Bruce say it was an act sounded more like big White-Out in the story. Even you came try to sell me the tale that she was a woman with good chemistry with Bruce because of humanitarian work and blah, blah, blah,
He still wasn't prepare...having Batman chasing a villain and then jumping into a helicopter is STILL very out of character. A well prepare Batman would summon the Bat-wing. But, oh, gee...how did historian Morrison could forget that?
Originally posted by jumpmann
The Black Glove's been attacking Bruce for a long time. Since 52, since the isolation chamber experiments, and since the beginning of Morrison's first Batman issue.
Since the begining of Morrison run we've had nothing but a spoil brat acting like Batman's child. Had the story of R.I.P would have been something like Ra hiring BG and using Damian to distract Bruce then I would have been sold. Then again no one listens to me.
Originally posted by jumpmann
He set up the BG as a force of nature which even Bruce couldn't fully comprehend but was prepared to do battle with. He didn't just appear out of nowhere like the villain of month scenario which Hush did. Since the BG almost managed to kill Bruce twice before RIP started and infiltrate most aspects of his life, I'm not going to worry over the small details on how they managed to hack the Batcomputer without triggering any alarms.
HUH?! Hush been waiting to strike at Bruce at the right time for awhile. Ever since his origin the character is just been planning and planning on how to take on Batman. Hush been popping in and out for years now. Yeah, don't go into the details on how they manage to hack the Batcomputer....I can tell that right away.
Originally posted by jumpmann
The BG is, by Batman's own words (in 674), "an invisible, implacable foe who calculated my every weakness? Who had access to allies, weapons and tactics I couldn't imagine. An adversary whose plots and grand designs were so vast, so elaborate, that they went unnoticed until it was too late." The Black Glove>Batcave/Hush.
Sounds more like something Ra would pull...but this magical BG that was crafted out of Morrison's mind really gave him a run. Oh well...you got sold. I'm okay with it...
Originally posted by jumpmann
Gordon went to Wayne Manor expecting to talk to Bruce Wayne and ended up in house where his every move was being monitored and was forced into the BG's game. Yeah, just whip out the radio and call for help and hope to not get shot in the face with an arrow. It probably inadvertently showed Gordon's intellect by playing El Sombrero's game rather than trying to run for it or call for help, risking certain death.
That's just your way to spin-off the story. But again, you can make those speculations...Gordon is still seem clueless in this arc. Which is fine...this isn't the first it happens.
Fact is Didio and Morrison toy with this arc story and ending. I'm just glad Didio didn't try the same with Dini. Oh..wait...I think he tried with HoH...but it didn't work. Good ole Dini makes me proud.
I'm still trying to figure what exactly was the purpose of The Joker in this story! Aside from been an spectato.... what was he doing? Oh wait! I got it! This clever and sophisticated organization of the Black Glove invite an unpredictable psychotic killer into their plot just to see him butcher your fellow members and reduce their numbers! I GET IT!
This R.I.P. has been on disorganized tale patch with Duct tape and abusive with White-Out. Heck! even the cross stories haven't been fully connected.
Look, if you liked the story and thought it was good and all that....good for you. Just don't make it seem this was a colossal thing...it isn't...not even HoH was far beyond great.
As it was said before by tjcoady:
"This is kind of argument that really can't be won on either side."
We're different folks with different strokes.
Originally posted by Kovacs86
So... how long 'til Bruce is back? In other words, that is... how long 'til I buy any DC comics again?
Same thing on my mind
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
I expect Bruce to return anywhere from 6 months to 2 years...but 1st... Guys what type of Batsuit should be worn now?
How about brand new bat weaponry??
Since
Spoiler:
Nightwing, Birds of Prey and Robin have been cancelledWhat brand new Bat titles will their be?
New titles will probably deal with the aftermath and effects of Batmans "death" as well has how it ties in with the DC universe i imagine.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, I think you waited till you finally could pull some snappy comeback in the back of your head.
And the argument went nowhere in the last two posts. Better end this post in the middle of nowhere too.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He was busy being GrantMorrison which got really annoying by the end.
Morrison to me seems to promise big things and then delivers little. Case in point with the Return of Ra. He had said Damian was going to be killed and bring back Ra. Didn't happen...he change the story. It seems to me that he just can't make his mind on endings.
What really is confounding here is how everyone was praising the evil and disturbing look of his Joker for R.I.P. But for some bizarre reason this "evil" Joker gets taken out by a child? The same horrible and unlikeable child that has been compare to Scrappy Doo!
I love how some people are talking about how brilliant this story is. There are a lot of confused readers right now, and that's not a good thing. This is the Matrix Revolutions all over again. It's just half baked...
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Morrison to me seems to promise big things and then delivers little. Case in point with the Return of Ra. He had said Damian was going to be killed and bring back Ra. Didn't happen...he change the story. It seems to me that he just can't make his mind on endings.What really is confounding here is how everyone was praising the evil and disturbing look of his Joker for R.I.P. But for some bizarre reason this "evil" Joker gets taken out by a child? The same horrible and unlikeable child that has been compare to Scrappy Doo!
I love how some people are talking about how brilliant this story is. There are a lot of confused readers right now, and that's not a good thing. This is the Matrix Revolutions all over again. It's just half baked...
So you were part of the half of fans who enjoyed Batman RIP, right? 😐
Comic book noobs and freshers who started picking up Batman after the movies are the only people i've met who've liked this story aka pile of cr*p.
Then again they don't know any different, so well done DC they've managed to shock a few suckers and sell a few more issues and make a shit load of publicity for the Batman brand.
While in the long run more and more of us longterm readers are getting bored and nonchalant with the same old tricks every two years.
Originally posted by GGS
Comic book noobs and freshers who started picking up Batman after the movies are the only people i've met who've liked this story aka pile of cr*p.Then again they don't know any different, so well done DC they've managed to shock a few suckers and sell a few more issues and make a shit load of publicity for the Batman brand.
While in the long run more and more of us longterm readers are getting bored and nonchalant with the same old tricks every two years.
I'm not a sucker for having an opinion ❌
Define long term. I've been reading Batman for around 7 or 8 years (granted not as long as Spidey which is 11 years. Sorry I'm only 18 and have only been reading Batman for 7 or 8 years, do I have to be at least 40, living in my mother's basement and been reading about the Dark Knight for 20 years to be a long time fan?) and I thought RIP was cool. There were lots of flaws and lots deviation from the core element of the story in exchange for wacky Morrison style storytelling, but honestly what did people expect?
Look at the storyline from it's beginning with hindsight....
It's a story about Batman dying in some way shape or form. It simply cannot live up to all the hype or expectations of fans. This isn't a criticism of RIP as no story ever lives up to everyone expectations, whether it's supposed to include a major change in the status quo or not.
Secondly it's written by Grant Morrison. His style is wacky enough to be considered controversial on a broad scale, especially when dealing with something as dark and moody as Batman.
Also it left us on very uncertain terms. We don't know how permanent Bruce's death is gonna be and being a comic series we all expect him to return sooner or later. With this in mind should we automatically criticise the storyline? Steve Rogers has been dead for a while and lots of people love it, regardless of any circumstances of his return cos they're enjoying the story.
If the storyline had ended with a definite clarification on everything (why would it? We already know Morrison's writing it, we're the suckers for thinking otherwise) people would have been upset about the resolutions. I understand complaining about a storyline that 100% without a doubt means Bruce Wayne is gone, but when it's this ambiguous, why complain? If the storyline could be retconned with Bruce's return then it keeps the other half of the upset fans happy at some point. the other half are happy in the meanwhile.
Sorry, I don't mean to rant but this story had many flaws but it was by no means as atrocious as some are making out and many "long time fans" enjoyed it.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
What really is confounding here is how everyone was praising the evil and disturbing look of his Joker for R.I.P. But for some bizarre reason this "evil" Joker gets taken out by a child? The same horrible and unlikeable child that has been compare to Scrappy Doo!
It was also atrociously cartoonish.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I love how some people are talking about how brilliant this story is. There are a lot of confused readers right now, and that's not a good thing. This is the Matrix Revolutions all over again. It's just half baked...
It's certainly clever . . . right up until the end where the whole thing falls apart. I liked all of RIP up to the last issue where Morrison basically sacrificed explanations and even his writing style in order to end the story.
Worst part of the whole mess
Spoiler:
Batman is killed as he the helicopter he jumps onto, which is piloted by his father's insane body double who apparently hasn't aged in the course of twenty or thirty years, suddenly explodes making the entire rest of the story completely irrelevant.
*sigh* I really do like Morrison's work overall but in the end RIP pretty much sucked.
I could almost write a book on how atrocious and silly this arc was. Case in point that stupid gimmick of "Zur-En-Arrh" Morrison likes to paint himself as a Batman historian...he can some how remember what happens some character from back in 1950s.
Yet for some strange reason he forgot about The Idiot Root arc (which happen back in 1992) In that arc a very small character by the name of Idiot attacks Batman's mind by the consuming a root which cause psychological alterations. Batman was severely and nearly defeated during the fight with The Idiot. Strangely enough...."Zur-En-Arrh" wasn't even mention....wow! How could Batman historian Mr. Morrison didn't even mention it...
What really bothers me is the whole theory that it is The Devil himself as Dr. Hurt. I find it completely comical! Gee, after seen what happen with Spiderman and the Devil in OMD you would want him out of the story...yet some Batman fans want to accept this...
*sigh*
Well, I have rant long enough...but..what can I say? Better retire for now.
Originally posted by willRules
Steve Rogers has been dead for a while and lots of people love it, regardless of any circumstances of his return cos they're enjoying the story.
I don't really think you can compare Captain America to Batman in that regard. For all intents and purposes I don't believe Steve has that kind of pull.
I'd say replacing Bruce Wayne as Batman would be the equivalent to replacing Peter Parker as Spider Man or James Howlett as Wolverine. I can't imagine that either would go down well especially if Marvel tried to replace them with Spider-Girl and X-23/Daken respectively.
As for the arc...I'm just completely confused. 😕