Originally posted by Juntai
You mean Ras Al Ghul? Who can pretty much match Batman in skill, match Batman in resources, and match Batman in wits?I love Joker as much as the next guy, he's one of my favorite characters, but as a longtime huge fan of Batman, Ras really is his best baddie.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Match Batman in nearly everything ? Considering his resources, experience and training over the centuries, yeah.I don't find him the most interesting villain in Batman's rogue gallery, at all. Joker, written well, is by far more interesting than him. Two Face also. But then again, this is subjective.
Two face is a good one too, because of his internal struggles. He rarely gets written as much more than a top level thug however.
Joker more or less most often plays the part of the monster, truly Batman pitties him more than anything because of his pyschosis, he's mentioned it several times. A bad guy shouldn't be pittied, he should command respect. His stories are great though, I love reading them.
For comparison; In one of his more recent appearances, Joker went out on the town, tied down robin in a car and started hitting people with it while cracking jokes. On the other side, Ras has Bruce trailing across the entire globe trying to stop him, fighting off the league of assassins, unraveling deeper plots, about both he and Ras' history, etc. The intricacy levels are just vastly different.
It's like comparing Doomsday and Lex as Superman villains. Doomsday certainly poses more imminent threat, like Joker to Batman, while Lex and Ras test the character to their core, and usually end up rather unscathed in the end.
I completly disagree with the Joker/Doomsday & Ra's al Ghul/Lex Luthor comparison but yeah .. this is pretty subjective.
That's the charm about the Joker, he doesn't need to be that powerfull when it comes to resources and such, he is more of a psihological villain. Not many writers get him, they just see him as a crazy homicidal clown. Have you read Grant Morrison's prose story ? It's one of my favorite Joker stories of all time and the characterization and his relationship with Batman is pretty much dead-on.
Ra's al Ghul is good but IMO, Joker is on another level. Is he a threat to Batman ? Sure. One of the only things I find interesting in him is his respect for Batman and wanting him to be his heir. Like you said, in a way he is pretty much an evil Batman, with a different vision and approach. But he just .. doesn't do it for me.
Just my opinion... I've re read both Batman #676 and 677. They're both good issues. R.I.P could stand for just about anything. R could mean Ra's Al Ghul, but had his story already in the Ressurrection of Ra's Al Ghul, so I doubt he is returning this fast. R.I.P. couls also mean Robin in Progress meaning perhaps a Boy Wonder takes over. However I do have some doubts. Like for instance, A few have suggested that Bruce is not even a Wayne at all, which could be possible, but to get rid of so much history and having Grant Morrison steal the classic lines from ESB and have Alfred say to Bruce....." Bruce I am your father" doesn't quite have a ring to it yet. What will Alfred say afterward "Search your feelings, you know it to be true".
Perhaps the Black Glove is in actually Thomas Wayne who never died, but would he fake his own death and torture Bruce into the man he is today?? What would he even tell Bruce that he is alive and well at all?? As for Jezebel Jet (guess DC couldn't come up with a better name) , if she is the true Wayne, she wants the family fortune at this point in time all of a sudden?? Could R.I.P. mean Rest in Peace, as a lot of people think it means, but why kill Bruce Wayne or for some reason take him out of the Batman equation? In 2009, that marks the 70th anniversary of Batman certainly DC has to have something nice planned for the Batman comic books next year. If someone else takes upu the mantle of the Bat who in the world is that going to be. DC failed miserably 12 years ago after Ban broke Bruce's back and an unstable person took over and DC later brought back Bruce to regain his rightful place.. Also remember Batman : Prodigal when Dick Grayson temporally took over as Batman, Dick couldn't handle it. Sorry for the long post, that is all for now..
I find Joker to be the better Batman villain. True, he's less of a duplicate of Batman than Ra's, but I think he strikes Batman deeper.
Tower of Babel, Ra's was a worldwide threat and was striking at Batman, the JLA, Bat's parents, and messing with Bat's secrets. Batman's relatively unphased, though disgruntled.
Hush, Joker "shoots" Batman's friend.
Batman nearly beats him to death.
I just re read all of Morrison's run (minus the Ra's issues...but including my first reading on that 20 minute long Joker issue lol) and it feels like everything has been building towards this. I have absolute confidence the end result will be magnificent and am just happy to go along with the ride for now.
Originally posted by jumpmannAgreed, Morrison started off slow and has built something fantastic, typical of him. Look how long it took his JLA run to unfold, Animal Man, etc.
I just re read all of Morrison's run (minus the Ra's issues...but including my first reading on that 20 minute long Joker issue lol) and it feels like everything has been building towards this. I have absolute confidence the end result will be magnificent and am just happy to go along with the ride for now.