Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
yea, and he beat the most skilled person ever. That is pretty much all that grevious has going for him except brute strength.
maul is not the greatest thing ever. and you guys need to look at this from all angles.
My conclusion: grevous wins
Reasons:
1) both he and anakin are cocky and head strong and severely lacking in the "team work" departments, thus would not support eachother in battle.
2) maul has a saber staff and uses juyo so there would be no room for anakin to use his shien without them carving eachother up before they can get to grevous.
3) maul is no where near grevous who could go toes to toe with dooku.
4)grevous made dooku hard pressed to defeat him, Aotc anakin was swept aside by dooku.
5) the feats of cw grevous especially taking out masters, and i think at one point he took out over 3 or 4 jedi at once puts him FAR above the AOTC anakin and far above maul.
Decision: grevous wins 9/10
Maul woudl ****ing pwn him, dude. Do you even know who Anoon Bandaras is? He's like Tony Bandaras except ten tiems more uber. He's the most technically skilled over any Jedi evah. He could probably solo the LotF Jedi with his technica skilllllsssssssssss alone.
GG stands no chance. He's simply outmatched. There's no way he's beating the deadliest apprentice in Sith history.
xD lolz... Anoon Bondara can effortlessly defeat DE Sidious and NJO Luke together by twitching his finger. He is truly uber.
But now, seriously, I think GG- despite being far cooler than Maul and Anakin- would most likely lose to the combined team of them. Anakin, individually, was able to put up a significant fight against Dooku in AotC (as in he wasn't totally curbstomped in 5 seconds), and even forced him back for a very short period- he's clearly formidable. Meanwhile, Maul was a very tough lightsaber combatant- as multiple people, such as Gideon and D Power proved to me- and had mastery of multiple forms. While I don't think any would stand a chance against him individually, together, they can take him. Definetly no easy defeat, though, there's always a significant chance he could kill one of them.
Meanwhile, as MoC correctly pointed out, they are extremely unlikely to be a well coordinated team. Also, GG's taking of four intimidated, tired masters/knights was still highly impressive; as I've clarified, he is well beyond AotC Anakin and also probably above Maul, but together, they can take him.
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Maul woudl ****ing pwn him, dude. Do you even know who Anoon Bandaras is? He's like Tony Bandaras except ten tiems more uber. He's the most technically skilled over any Jedi evah. He could probably solo the LotF Jedi with his technica skilllllsssssssssss alone.GG stands no chance. He's simply outmatched. There's no way he's beating the deadliest apprentice in Sith history.
as i have stated before anoon was good IN HIS TIME but the jedi council had improved since then
Originally posted by truejedi
but maul has the force. If the power of the death star is insignificant next to the power of the foce, then how much more so insignificant is the power of one super-uber android?
your premise is flawed because simply having the force doesnt mean you beat GG because if it were so he wouldnt have killed so many jedi. the point is GG is the ultimate programmable anti-jedi machine who has succeeded in killing jedi
yes but those jedis who greivous killed were not as strong, fast or as skilled as Maul.
also when Greivous fought 4 masters simultaneously they were exhausted, and he has 4 blades to do that with. Maul with his double bladed weapon could have easily taken on 2 of them, and if they were that exhausted then easily defeated them.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
yes but those jedis who greivous killed were not as strong, fast or as skilled as Maul.also when Greivous fought 4 masters simultaneously they were exhausted, and he has 4 blades to do that with. Maul with his double bladed weapon could have easily taken on 2 of them, and if they were that exhausted then easily defeated them.
can you quantify and substantiate 3 things for me
1) if those masters are actually inferior to maul as you say
2) if so how much weaker the 4 jedi masters are supposed to be than maul
3) how drained they were? were they at 99% 60%, 50% or what?>
Both sides are going about this argument entirely wrong.
On the one hand, Darth Maul is "one of the most dangerous Sith apprentices in history", a Sith Lord whose training regimen is lightyears beyond anything we've ever seen -- certainly beyond Grievous's own -- to the point that he has "pushed his physical and Force assisted abilities to the utmost", and of course, he is a master of Juyo, a form that requires its masters to be "high end masters of multiple forms" -- it enabled him to overcome Anoon Bondara, a Jedi Master whose technical ability exceeds that of the High Council. So to suggest that the Jedi whom Grievous battled are anything approaching Maul's own prodigious prowess has me somewhat skeptical. And then we have Anakin Skywalker, who even as of Attack of the Clones, demonstrated a greater proficiency as a swordsman than his talented master, who actually forced Count Dooku to work for his win.
On the other hand, General Grievous is a cyborg of vast physical proportion. To quote the omniscient narrator "no human being could move remotely as fast as Grievous" and he demonstrates speeds at various points that make his limbs appear "invisible" to Obi-Wan's own eye. So, while Anakin and Maul are both easily capable of augmenting their own reflexes, Grievous has immediately far more speed than they do. Likewise, Grievous is capable of utilizing up to four lightsabers in complete conjunction moving at speeds in excess of twenty strikes per second, and [like Skywalker] is capable of giving trouble to the Count during sparring sessions. But perhaps the coup de grace is Grievous's analysis computers that allow the general to analyze, mimic, and return in kind maneuvers from all seven forms of combat [including the "unconventionally lethal Vaapad"] as demonstrated in his duel with Mace Windu.
However, Count Dooku flat out told Grievous that he would best to withdraw should he face any upper tier Force users without the element of surprise and fear on his side, though Mace Windu himself said in Grievous's favor that the general is "more than a match for most Jedi". Likewise, though both are ferocious opponents, Anakin and Maul aren't likely to be a supremely effective team.
but gideon, dooku didnt have to work for his win, he was just relaxing the whole time. the point of makashi is to let your opponents tire out. which is why he was backing up sometimes in his aotc duel with anakin.
and anakin wasnt all that great by aotc, im sure dooku wouldnt tell GG to avoid an aotc anakin. ROTS anakin is great but not aotc.
besides, mauls saberstaff makes him a terrible partner and increases the chances of accidently cutting anakin up.
GG's computer chip allows him to mimic JUYO not vaapad. to use vaapad you need the force, not technology.
but speaking of technology, with GG's computer chip he could easily pick up on both of thier styles and take advantage of them.\
maul beat anoon bondara before TPM but the rots jedi and aotc jedi had gotten a lot better.
the point being it may not be VERy easy but i see the ever agile GG taking this comfortably
Originally posted by Man of Christ
but gideon, dooku didnt have to work for his win, he was just relaxing the whole time. the point of makashi is to let your opponents tire out.
Incorrect; Count Dooku was toying with Obi-Wan Kenobi, but when Skywalker engaged him a second time in the hangar, the movie's novelization, screenplay, and the Count's own musings in Labyrinth of Evil all conclude that Skywalker had "proven to be a powerful opponent" and while Dooku certainly wasn't unleashing all of his destructive energies against Anakin, he wasn't screwing around with him either.
which is why he was backing up sometimes in his aotc duel with anakin.
and anakin wasnt all that great by aotc, im sure dooku wouldnt tell GG to avoid an aotc anakin. ROTS anakin is great but not aotc.
Anakin was better than Obi-Wan, who was a skilled and talented Jedi even by that time. Anakin was the most prodigious and powerful learner at the Temple.
besides, mauls saberstaff makes him a terrible partner and increases the chances of accidently cutting anakin up.
I already suggested that the two wouldn't exactly be the greatest team ever.
GG's computer chip allows him to mimic JUYO not vaapad. to use vaapad you need the force, not technology.
Wrong, he mimicked Vaapad. Not perfectly, but "close enough". Windu's musings and the omniscient narrator confirm it.
but speaking of technology, with GG's computer chip he could easily pick up on both of thier styles and take advantage of them.\
Right... I believe I pointed that out. The problem being that computer analysis =/= experience with the form and it doesn't mean that he will automatically be able to wield it to the degree that they do.
maul beat anoon bondara before TPM but the rots jedi and aotc jedi had gotten a lot better.
Proof? Anoon Bondara's skills as a swordsman were unmatched. Given how Jedi weren't facing Sith or Dark Jedi [other than Dooku's elite], I doubt that as a whole the Jedi Order improved other than field tactics and combat experience, not technical prowess.
the point being it may not be VERy easy but i see the ever agile GG taking this comfortably
I remain undecided.
Originally posted by Gideon
Incorrect; Count Dooku was toying with Obi-Wan Kenobi, but when Skywalker engaged him a second time in the hangar, the movie's novelization, screenplay, and the Count's own musings in Labyrinth of Evil all conclude that Skywalker had "proven to be a powerful opponent" and while Dooku certainly wasn't unleashing all of his destructive energies against Anakin, he wasn't screwing around with him either.Anakin was better than Obi-Wan, who was a skilled and talented Jedi even by that time. Anakin was the most prodigious and powerful learner at the Temple.
I already suggested that the two wouldn't exactly be the greatest team ever.
Wrong, he mimicked Vaapad. Not perfectly, but "close enough". Windu's musings and the omniscient narrator confirm it.
Right... I believe I pointed that out. The problem being that computer analysis =/= experience with the form and it doesn't mean that he will automatically be able to wield it to the degree that they do.
Proof? Anoon Bondara's skills as a swordsman were unmatched. Given how Jedi weren't facing Sith or Dark Jedi [other than Dooku's elite], I doubt that as a whole the Jedi Order improved other than field tactics and combat experience, not technical prowess.
I remain undecided.
1)The fact that dooku could have killed him but didnt shows he wasnt taking him seriously at all.
2)Being a most prodigous learner doesnt mean you are a threat to grevous,
lets look at it. anakin hadnt mastered djem so by aotc, and was too cocky to be wise as a deulist. thus in his atoc state he wont put up a fight against grevous, who actually challeneged dooku.
3)vapaad is basically force enhanced juyo, we pretty much argue the same thing from diffrent angles but i wont be pedantic with the terms here.
4)grevous has had extensive training in many lightsber forms so he has the chip and the experience
5)proof, here you go. yoda wa sstated to be the most devastatingly powerful enemy that darkness had ever known which automatically puts him above anoon, and with the jedi on the council not being too far beind yoda in perfromance as seen in the rots movie, we can safely say they would be able to beat anoon and maul.
Originally posted by Man of Christ
1)The fact that dooku could have killed him but didnt shows he wasnt taking him seriously at all.
The movie's novelization, screenplay, and Count Dooku's own thoughts > your observations.
2)Being a most prodigous learner doesnt mean you are a threat to grevous,
lets look at it. anakin hadnt mastered djem so by aotc, and was too cocky to be wise as a deulist. thus in his atoc state he wont put up a fight against grevous, who actually challeneged dooku.
Bullshit. According to the omniscient narrator, there had been moments where the Count was hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg. It's not like he whooped the shit out of Dooku or held his own on numerous occasions.
3)vapaad is basically force enhanced juyo, we pretty much argue the same thing from diffrent angles but i wont be pedantic with the terms here.
I appreciate the insight from your apparent intimate knowledge of Vaapad. Meanwhile, I'll take the narrator's word for it.
4)grevous has had extensive training in many lightsber forms so he has the chip and the experience
LOLZ. By the time of his invasion of Coruscant, Grievous had been a cyborg and in the employ of the Confederacy for three years. Maul's two decades > three years. Hell, Anakin's ten years > three years. Maul's training regimen absolutely shits on anything we've seen from the General. Don't even suggest that Grievous's training is as lengthly, demanding, or complete as that of Maul's or Anakin's.
5)proof, here you go. yoda wa sstated to be the most devastatingly powerful enemy that darkness had ever known which automatically puts him above anoon,
Did I say that Anoon Bondara was more powerful than Yoda? I said that Bondara's technical skill exceeded Yoda's, not power.
and with the jedi on the council not being too far beind yoda in perfromance as seen in the rots movie,
Performance? You mean three of them getting utterly curbstomped by Palpatine in roughly 10 to 15 seconds? While the movie's novelization acknowledges numerous times that Masters Tinn, Kolar, and Fisto are among the finest bladesbeings in the Order's history and Lucas's own words that "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor" -- and thus I agree that the Jedi Council is absolutely formidable -- the only two Council members who can be suggested as on par with Yoda are Mace Windu and Anakin Skywalker.
we can safely say they would be able to beat anoon and maul.
Possibly.