Originally posted by KidRockNah, for Health Care for other people.
Do you mean for healthcare for myself?
The United States is alone among developed nations with the absence of a universal health care system.[10][11] Healthcare in the U.S. does, however, have significant publicly funded components. Medicare covers the elderly and disabled with a historical work record, Medicaid is available for some, but not all of the poor,[12] and the State Children's Health Insurance Program covers children of low-income families. The Veterans Health Administration directly provides health care to U.S. military veterans through a nationwide network of government hospitals; while active duty service members, retired service members and their dependents are eligible for benefits through TRICARE. Together, these tax-financed programs cover about 27% of the population[13] and make the government the largest health insurer in the nation. In 2001, only the governments of Iceland and Norway spent more per capita on healthcare.
Do I misread something in that? I am wondering now... is the US Government spending more on Health Care than any other country or are the people in the US spending more per capita than the governments of other countries do?
Originally posted by KidRockI am with you that I think National Health Care is shit. Though, the way the UK does it, for example, would at least be better than the way you do it. You now, hurting the economy PLUS having people die on the streets...just not that cool
Oh yeah, and what a complete mess it is..so how logical is it to add MORE people to the program?
Originally posted by Bardock42
I am with you that I think National Health Care is shit. Though, the way the UK does it, for example, would at least be better than the way you do it. You now, hurting the economy PLUS having people die on the streets...just not that cool
Where does it say though that its my job to pay for all of these peoples health care? I don't feel I should be taxed and punished to pay for a drug dealers health care when his dealings go wrong..maybe others do, but I really dont feel thats where my money should go.
There are better ways of doing it as well. Maybe set it up where the health care will cover operations >2000$. That way we wont be paying for every gang bangers bullet wound or prostitutes herpes medicine.
Also bring in the QUALITY of health care, it will go down with UHC.
I should pay for my own healthcare and thats it, I don't think the government should have to baby everybody, some feel this country must be too weak to survive on its own though.
Characterising universal health care as catering for drug dealers is a feeble way of arguing the point, kid rock- even if people agreed that was undesierable, which is moral nonsense, the fact is the vast majority of such spending goes on everyday people who are ill.
Perhaps you don't think your tax dollars should be spent on police either? Perhaps you think that is a punishment also, because careless people need the police to help them sometimes? Why should you have to pay for their folly, hmm? It's broken reasoning. Taxes pay for public services. Your idea that taxes should only pay for things that directly benefit you is obscene.
Frankly, I don't see why your opinion of where that money should go is a worthwhile consideration. The need is there, and your opinion contributes to withholding aid from the needy. As I have mentioned several times before on this debate, people look at the US in horror for the way it deals with healthcare- it's relic from less civilised times.
The right to health care is a universal one, part of the basic duty of care a Government has for its citizens. That your access to such care is entirely conditioned on your ability to pay for it- as it is in the US- then that right is not being met. The lack of that in the US is a black mark against it.
Your idea that the richest country in the world cannot afford it, when many poorer countries do, is a nonsense also.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Perhaps you don't think your tax dollars should be spent on police either? Perhaps you think that is a punishment also, because careless people need the police to help them sometimes? Why should you have to pay for their folly, hmm? It's broken reasoning. Taxes pay for public services. Your idea that taxes should only pay for things that directly benefit you is obscene.
Not true at all. The police are a necessity to society, the police help everybody everyday, even indirectly. Just them being there on the streets is helping me and everybody else by deterring would be criminals. Even if I never have to call the police, I am still using their service and my tax dollars are actually doing something.
On the other hand I could be paying thousands of dollars for a service that isn't benefiting me at all but at the same time benefiting people who may not work at all, or those who abuse the system such as the millions of smokers in America who may end up in the hospital from pretty much harming themselves, all on my dollar.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
The right to health care is a universal one, part of the basic duty of care a Government has for its citizens. That your access to such care is entirely conditioned on your ability to pay for it- as it is in the US- then that right is not being met. The lack of that in the US is a black mark against it.
People may have the right to health care, but it isn't my duty to pay for it..which is the way the government would be paying for it, my tax dollars. Whats next? Will the government keep taking more money from me to insure everyone has a house? Then more money to make sure everyone has plenty of food? Then more taxes to insure everyone has clothes to wear? Then what other 'universal right' will be brought up which will be taken out of my paycheck?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Your idea that the richest country in the world cannot afford it, when many poorer countries do, is a nonsense also.
Like what other countries? Norway with a population of 4 million people? Or Denmark with 5 million people? New York City has a higher population then these two countries. What works in a smaller country may not work in a bigger one.
Originally posted by KidRock
Not true at all. The police are a necessity to society, the police help everybody everyday, even indirectly. Just them being there on the streets is helping me and everybody else by deterring would be criminals. Even if I never have to call the police, I am still using their service and my tax dollars are actually doing something.On the other hand I could be paying thousands of dollars for a service that isn't benefiting me at all but at the same time benefiting people who may not work at all, or those who abuse the system such as the millions of smokers in America who may end up in the hospital from pretty much harming themselves, all on my dollar.
People may have the right to health care, but it isn't my duty to pay for it..which is the way the government would be paying for it, my tax dollars. Whats next? Will the government keep taking more money from me to insure everyone has a house? Then more money to make sure everyone has plenty of food? Then more taxes to insure everyone has clothes to wear? Then what other 'universal right' will be brought up which will be taken out of my paycheck?
Like what other countries? Norway with a population of 4 million people? Or Denmark with 5 million people? New York City has a higher population then these two countries. What works in a smaller country may not work in a bigger one.
the irony being that you dont seem to complain when Billions of tax dollars get spent on other countries healthcare in the form of aid or even writing off loans to other countries...i take it you dont object to that but to object to tax money being spent on your fellow citizens
Originally posted by BackFire
Universal Health care = more alive, healthy people who don't have to spend all their money in order to not die.More alive healthy people with money = more spending.
More spending = better economy.
Better economy = Bardock loves men
Aww, it would be so nice if that was true.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Do I misread something in that? I am wondering now... is the US Government spending more on Health Care than any other country or are the people in the US spending more per capita than the governments of other countries do?
I am unfamiliar with the majority of healthcare systems in other nations, but I do live in the virtual vacuum of America. In this country, our healthcare system feeds, not only on the sick, but on the healthy. Our system is set up as a response to our lifestyle. And our lifestyle is popping pills we likely don't need, sucking down red meat that is loaded with hormones and anti-biotics, taking medications for diseases that were developed before the illness was discovered, injecting our children with vaccine cocktails that make them dumber than a baby born in a lead paint factory and chemically treating our food so it will keep in a freezer for a year before we microwave it and feed it to our family.
The truely sick part is that all it takes for a person to improve their own life and reduce their dependance on this crap is educating themselves and looking at a food label before they eat it. Don't want George Lucas to make anymore shitty movies? Don't go see them. Don't want shit and drugs in your food? Don't buy it. And considering the annual budget of the US government, effective and beneficial universal healthcare can be paid for at a fraction of the current tax rate.
Descent, affordable healthcare would be a benefit to the economy of this country. But it can't begin and end there. This country has to stop poisoning itself before the economy will benefit.
As a response to the question posed, "How will universal healthcare benefit the economy?", one must answer the question, "How will it harm the economy?" if handled correctly?
This nation is drowning under the cost of government mandated insurance and it's own need for healthcare and this forces a business to take up the responsability of providing health insurance. And, as it is, dental insurance is a luxury not enjoyed by most Americans. Well, your teeth are a HUGE part of an individuals health.
Yeah, I went off from my scheduled response to your comment. Buthealthcare is an issue that effects practically every other bottom line in this country.
Originally posted by jaden101
the irony being that you dont seem to complain when Billions of tax dollars get spent on other countries healthcare in the form of aid or even writing off loans to other countries...i take it you dont object to that but to object to tax money being spent on your fellow citizens
I am all for my tax dollars paying to help care for the people of natural disasters such as the Tsunami and hurricane Katrina..both of which I would even donate money to help the cause. But of course like what would happen with UHC eventually, people are now abusing the Katrina funds. In the long run I believe UHC would go to shit.
Originally posted by BackFire
At least one part is.
lmao
Originally posted by Bardock42Bardockins, you misunderstood what I meant by expenditure, expenditure figures take into account both private and public expenditure and private expenditure in the US per capita alone is still greater than the OECD average for total expenditure per capita.
Oh, but as you rightly pointed out the US spends the most out of any country on their health care. It's hardly a free market at all, in fact, by standards of free market supporters it's probably the least free...One of the things about National Health Care, in England at least, according to that **** Michael Moore at least, is that if doctors get only paid like 30 000 (random number, whatever it is), what really stops the good ones from going to the US or maybe even Germany to make 5 times that? Just strikes me as odd. Also, the waiting times for not absolutely urgent issues is just mind boggling to me.
So neither the private or public healthcare sector in the US seems to be effectively utilizing the level of expenditure; when something like 50 million Americans don't have proper access to healthcare. Many other developed countries are spending less per capita in total, than either the public or private expenditure in the US, and apparently according to WHO and the Commonwealth Fund achieving better results. Less doctors, nurses and hospital beds per capita, lower gains in life expectancy and drops in infant mortality.