Yoda vs. Traya
I have a ton of yoda fights-- i'm kinda in a fanboy mode right now.
Yoda vs. Traya b/c nhillus is so ambiguous.
Saber is probably not too important, so lets make this a force only battle.
If this one is too straightforward, hows about NJO Jacen, right after his defeat of the Vong who makes poison (the 'power behind the throne' guy-- can't remember his name) vs. yoda
Originally posted by Jbill311
i'm not allowed to edit the post/title- so if we have any mods it can be closed/renamed to yoda vs. NJO Jacen
The consensus from what I have seen is that LOTF Jace aka Darth Caedus is on the same tier as Yoda but loses to him. I doubt a less powerful version of Caedus can win this.
What makes you think Yoda will not be able to resist Traya's drain, if she uses it? There is not a huge amount evidence that Traya is great with the force. Draining the trio of jedi was not amazing, there is nothing to show that these jedi were powerful. Throughout KOTOR 2 the jedi of the time are implied to be weak. Floating lightsabers are useful in lightsaber combat, but telekinesis is hardly an advanced force technique. Killing the sith assassins was nice, but assassins are nothing compared to Yoda.
Yoda on the other hand has plenty of evidence to show how powerful he is in the force. Stopping everything Dooku throws at him, using the force to avoid being hit by the lightsabers of Billaba, Koon, and Tiin, and his force usage in the battle with Sidious are a few examples. This is pretty straightforward.
As for yoda vs Jacen, it all depends. If this is Jacen right after the battle with Onimi, I am inclined to believe he would still be in the pure lightside power state. In that case he would be able to beat Yoda. If this was even an hour before/after the fight with Onimi however, Yoda would win.
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
What makes you think Yoda will not be able to resist Traya's drain, if she uses it? There is not a huge amount evidence that Traya is great with the force. Draining the trio of jedi was not amazing, there is nothing to show that these jedi were powerful. Throughout KOTOR 2 the jedi of the time are implied to be weak. Floating lightsabers are useful in lightsaber combat, but telekinesis is hardly an advanced force technique. Killing the sith assassins was nice, but assassins are nothing compared to Yoda.
Yoda on the other hand has plenty of evidence to show how powerful he is in the force. Stopping everything Dooku throws at him, using the force to avoid being hit by the lightsabers of Billaba, Koon, and Tiin, and his force usage in the battle with Sidious are a few examples. This is pretty straightforward.
As for yoda vs Jacen, it all depends. If this is Jacen right after the battle with Onimi, I am inclined to believe he would still be in the pure lightside power state. In that case he would be able to beat Yoda. If this was even an hour before/after the fight with Onimi however, Yoda would win.
QFT
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
The consensus from what I have seen is that LOTF Jace aka Darth Caedus is on the same tier as Yoda but loses to him. I doubt a less powerful version of Caedus can win this.
Consensus doesn't make it so Elite Hunter. While Yoda has the edge in various force powers and broad force knowledge, Jacen apparently has greater raw force abilities (stupid LOTF authors). Despite my disgust with how his fight with Luke went, he apparently is very capable of defeating Yoda. I'm not saying that he would, but it's not as clear cut as you think.
Let me quote you his "run in" with Luke. I'm not sure everyone here has read it, and making allusions to it doesn't do it justice. Caedus was OWNED by luke. After becoming a sith, so that is his most powerful incarnation. He was NOWHERE near Luke's level. Read on:
" Caedus was glad to see Luke's lightsaber still hanging from its belt clip, but he took the precaution of slipping toward his desk, where he would have access to a dozen weapons and traps he had prepared in anticipation of just such a confrontation.
Luke jabbed a finger in Caedus's direction. "Now i understand why you've been avoiding me." His tone was even and soft, tbut there was no mistaking th ewrath in his Force aura. "And this time, you've finally crossed the line."
........ "In the next instant, Caedus found himself flying across teh cabin toward his observation bubble. Luke had not gestured, had not flinched, had not even shifted his gaze; he had simply grabbed Caedus in teh Force, and hurled him five meters into his char.
"Don't lie, " Luke started across the cabin. "I'm getting tired of it."
Caedus sprang out of the chair...or attempted to. Instead, he found himself strggling against an invisible weight He felt as if he were accelerating to lightspeed with a faulty inertial compensator.
"Luke, youve' gone mad." Cauedus reached for the controls on the arm of his chair, and discovered he couldn't even do that much. "You can't do this. I know you're having trouble dealing with Mara's death, but--"
....Keenly aware that all that stood between him and a quick death was Luke Skywalker's much strained sense of decency, Caedus let a little of his very real fear seep into the Force, just enough to seem properly alarmed.
...... Caedus would have shaken his head, save that it was still being held motionless with the Force
..... Then I'll take it for what it's worth, " Luke said. Leaving Caedus Force-pinned in his chair, he started toward the door. "I'll show myself out."
Caedus knew he would be freed as soon as Luke turned his concentration to something other than Force-pinning him--but that might take minutes, and Caedus needed to send in the Home Fleet now... he could not allow anyone, even Luke Skywalker, to humiliate him, and simply leave.
..... ""what?" Caedus was so shocked that he tried to rise--and found himself as unable to move as before. "You can't desert now. We can end this war!"
......
The door opened. Instead of stepping through, Luke faced Caedus and spoke in a very calm voice. "I'm sure you're not threatening the younglings."
He pointed at the base of Jacen's meditation chair and made a tapping motion with his finger. The pedestal gave a loud whumpf, and the seat dropped a quarter meter.
"Because you really don't want to see me angry." Luke made the tapping motion again. The pedesteal emitted a metallic shrek, and the seat dropped another quarter meter. "and i think you're smart enough to know that."
Luke tapped a last time, and the pedestal collapsed with a low loud crump, despositing Caedus on teh floor with his feet sticking out in front of him like a child.
"But if you want to try me, go ahead and make that threat."
Luke lowered his hand, and the weight vanished from Caedus's chest. He could have leapt up to attack--had he been that foolish--but Sith were not slaves to their emotions.
Okay, the ..... were dialogues i skipped. But Jacen is held motionless through something like 5 pages of dialogue. HOw can it even be argued that he can come ANYWHERE close to luke? You can't fight very well if you can't move.
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
She's a fallible third party character.. saying that is as credible as random idiot DBZ villain yelling "I am unstoppable!".
Haven't you learned anything? Third party/person fallibility only applies to sources such as The New Essential Chronology, which was only drafted by the historical council of a galactic superpower with unlimited resources and startlingly insightful knowledge regarding events that no one could possibly know of [like the full measure of Darth Sidious's plans]. Clearly that person isn't qualified. On the other hand, Traya is a Sith -- true -- but an honest Sith. And a historian. Which means when she says shit like "there are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense" or "Ancient Sith makez all our peepz look like bitches!" she is clearly being one hundred percent objective and is uniquely qualified to make such a claim.
I think that the argument boils down to one thing, and that thing is the 'innocent untill proven guilty' thing. Yoda might be able to block the attack, but untill it's actually proven that he could we have to assume that he can't. Otherwise we just have people saying wether they believe he could without proof, essentually a pointless excercise.
On the other hand, Traya has already demonstrated the lethality of the technique by using it to kill 3 jedi masters who at the least would have been expecting her to attack them (she was a Sith after all) and at the most just got their defences raped.
Anyway, thats my argument.