Originally posted by willofthewisp
But there was no attempt to prove anything in my post. I was explaining how something was interpreted. If what I said truly is circular logic, then it is not my logic, is it? It is the logic of the belief system I was explaining.
He doesn't care. You gave him an opening to be hateful and he's going to milk it for everything he can. The irony of how much he dislikes people like JIA will never occur to him.
If we're all agreed to be done talking about ranting, maybe we can get back to the topic at hand, which asks the participants to consider different premises about Mary. For someone to state that Mary is not real/cannot be defined/whatever, that premise has been stated and by the nature of it, cannot be elaborated on, so I would like to go back to discussing Mary.
BTW, "Mother of God" is just a title, not to be taken so literally as to mean she was here before God and gave birth to God. She gave birth to whom many people believe to be the human manifestation of God. She herself was just a very faithful human being imo, and not one to be prayed to.
Thoughts?
Originally posted by willofthewisp
If we're all agreed to be done talking about ranting, maybe we can get back to the topic at hand, which asks the participants to consider different premises about Mary. For someone to state that Mary is not real/cannot be defined/whatever, that premise has been stated and by the nature of it, cannot be elaborated on, so I would like to go back to discussing Mary.BTW, "Mother of God" is just a title, not to be taken so literally as to mean she was here before God and gave birth to God. She gave birth to whom many people believe to be the human manifestation of God. She herself was just a very faithful human being imo, and not one to be prayed to.
Thoughts?
But if Jesus was in the beginning, as some people believe, then Mary was chosen for a reason. That reason is enough to give her a status of a demigod, and she should be worshiped.
Originally posted by willofthewisp
Mary was chosen because she was the most faithful woman in the world at that time. Going straight off of the Bible, an angel blessed Mary, but there is not one passage demanding worship of her.
But out of all people that have ever lived or will live, god chose to impregnate one woman with one of the members of the trinity. In other words, god used this one person to manifest god on Earth. If you do not show great respect and honor to this woman in the form of worship, then you are insulting god.
Respect and honor is not the same as worship, however. You can revere and even love someone without worshipping him/her.
Are we meant to worship Noah then, the man God chose to be pretty much the last man on earth, the man who we would all stem from since he was chosen to be the one to repopulate the earth? Just because someone is called to serve God in a certain way does not mean worship is the right way to admire them.
Originally posted by willofthewisp
Respect and honor is not the same as worship, however. You can revere and even love someone without worshipping him/her.Are we meant to worship Noah then, the man God chose to be pretty much the last man on earth, the man who we would all stem from since he was chosen to be the one to repopulate the earth? Just because someone is called to serve God in a certain way does not mean worship is the right way to admire them.
Catholics do not worship Mary in that way. They worship her in the way I outlined. Mary is far more impotent then Noah.
Originally posted by willofthewisp
If we're all agreed to be done talking about ranting, maybe we can get back to the topic at hand, which asks the participants to consider different premises about Mary. For someone to state that Mary is not real/cannot be defined/whatever, that premise has been stated and by the nature of it, cannot be elaborated on, so I would like to go back to discussing Mary.
you think the validity of Mary's existance is unimportant to a discussion of her role in religion?
how about, paternally created symbol designed to enforce female sexual subserviance?
Galatians 3:28: 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.'
Many people seem to forget how important a role women played in early Christianity. If women were made subservient, it is because too many men in the world didn't want to share their power. Since women in the ancient world were oppressed in just about every culture, Christianity cannot be to blame for women often being treated as second class citizens. Those who say that women are bad and inferior really didn't take this Biblical passage to heart. It's saying we are all equal in God's eyes.
Mary, as well as a bunch of strong women in the Bible the misogynist world choose to keep hidden, is a prominent figure in Christianity and is a great role model to men and women. How is she an example of sexual subservience? She did not need a man to give birth to the Savior because she had God, and after she had Jesus, she did in fact have sex, the nature of which is her business.
wow...
Mary, in your opinion, is an argument against the mysogny of the bible?
Like, you honestly think she is a powerful female character that doesn't steryotype female roles or oppress their sexuality? The most important woman in the bible and she is known specifically for being a VIRGIN. This isn't appaling to your femenist sensibilities?
WilloftheWisp...I still don't understand how you can respect a practice you believe to be blasphemous...it just doesn't make sense.
Also, Mary born of immaculate conception-free of sin- and led a life of purity and devotion to God and God chose her (even before her conception) to bear his son, God incarnate.
Thus, she is possibly the most important human being in the entire Bible, certainly more important than Noah or Moses or Abraham or Peter or Paul.
As such she is treated with great respect and love by the Catholic Church but she is not, and should never be worshiped. Worship is reserved for God alone.
No Catholics rightly worship her but they do correctly and appropriately give her the greatest admiration and devotion which she deserves based on her position.
mary is a symbol of patriarchical rule.
more or less, just saying that the existance of mary is a very important topic when discussing her, as, if she didn't exist, her role in the oppression of women through symbolically steryotyping their role in society, justifying the cultural practices of the time, is very important in the discussion of her.
Is the feminist angel still good if she did exist, sure, i think so, as the presentation of mary is based more on myth than fact anyways, just saying.
Originally posted by inimalist
mary is a symbol of patriarchical rule.more or less, just saying that the existance of mary is a very important topic when discussing her, as, if she didn't exist, her role in the oppression of women through symbolically steryotyping their role in society, justifying the cultural practices of the time, is very important in the discussion of her.
Is the feminist angel still good if she did exist, sure, i think so, as the presentation of mary is based more on myth than fact anyways, just saying.
Careful, you will get yelled at if you say that. 😆
Originally posted by inimalist
mary is a symbol of patriarchical rule.more or less, just saying that the existance of mary is a very important topic when discussing her, as, if she didn't exist, her role in the oppression of women through symbolically steryotyping their role in society, justifying the cultural practices of the time, is very important in the discussion of her.
Is the feminist angel still good if she did exist, sure, i think so, as the presentation of mary is based more on myth than fact anyways, just saying.
Ok...thats a glorious opinion.
I find it odd that such a patriarchal woman hating machine like the RCC tends to put such devotion onto a woman...but ok, thats your belief.
Originally posted by inimalist
lol, bring itchristianity hates women and is afraid of their sexuality
maybe not as individuals (but lots of individuals) but through symbols, myths and ritual.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Careful, you will get yelled at if you say that. 😆