Church before state.

Started by Phantom Zone28 pages
Originally posted by RocasAtoll

They did predate, but that doesn't have anything to do with what I wrote.

I think you were trying to explain why the battle tactics used be W.Africans were not effective. Im just saying really there is no reason why they couldn't have used hit and run tactics.

Anyway I see the fall of The Mali Empire as the main reason why W.Africa got colonised.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think you were trying to explain why the battle tactics used be W.Africans were not effective. Im just saying really there is no reason why they couldn't have used hit and run tactics.

Anyway I see the fall of The Mali Empire as the main reason why W.Africa got colonised.


I never said they couldn't. I said they were using medieval tactics because that was how they were armored and how they trained, unlike the Zulu who had the armament to more easily adapt to guerrilla warfare.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
I never said they couldn't. I said they were using medieval tactics because that was how they were armored and how they trained, unlike the Zulu who had the armament to more easily adapt to guerrilla warfare.

Ok fair enough.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
And the Mongols created the largest empire to ever be seen. Even more impressive. And second, they were not the cause. Internal corruption and lack of Italian soldiers in the legions were the major factors.
"

The internal corruption was always tehre, from the very beginning. That doesn't explain why it suddenly fell in the late 5th century.

And the lack of soldiers in general was a problem. But loss of land (and therefore taxes), loss of all grain supplies from North Africa (taken by the Goths), many military losses against Goths and Huns all led to a lack of military power. All that started at the very end of the 4th century when the Huns arrived in nothern Europe. THey set a chain reaction in motion that ate away Roman stability in almost 100 years. Well, for the Western Empire and Rome that is. The Eastern Empire became Byzantine and lasted on a bit.

Where Did 'Separation of Church and State' Come From?

The idea of "separation of church and state" is not spelled out in the Declaration of Independence. Nor the Constitution. In fact it's never spelled out. It is implied by the First Amendment to the Constitution (part of the Bill of Rights, established in 1791):

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Thomas Jefferson often gets a lot of credit for the thinking that preceded the First Amendment's freedom of religion wording. But the concept might never have come about if a radical immigrant named Roger Williams hadn't argued for it. Very persistently.

"Forced worship stinks in God's nostrils," Williams once said.

During the 17th century, many people left England to escape religious persecution. Many colonists came to America to be able to freely practice their religions. Williams, who was a defender of religious liberty, arrived in Boston on Feb. 5, 1631.

Ordained to the ministry in the Church of England, Williams discovered Puritanism, a reform movement that developed within the Church of England, during his first parish duty. He converted. Soon after, he was asked to be minister in the Massachusetts Bay Colony, according to an account by the Library of Congress. Leaving behind the religious intolerance under England's King Charles I, he and his wife journeyed across the ocean to join the "American Experiment" in Boston in 1631.

At first, Williams just wanted to reform the Church of England; soon, he sought separation completely.

Many of Williams's parishioners did not agree with his idea to separate from the Church of England. He then became minister in Salem. There, his ideas also proved too radical. He went to Plymouth but again fell into disfavor. Williams insisted that land must be purchased from the Indians, rather than taken from them forcefully, in order to claim title to it. He again went to Salem and was eventually put on trial in 1635 for his views. His sentence was banishment. Williams then purchased land from the Narragansett Indians and established the settlement of Providence, Rhode Island.

Williams founded the colony of Rhode Island based upon principles of complete religious toleration, separation of church and state, and political democracy (values that the U.S. would later be founded upon). It became a refuge for people persecuted for their religious beliefs.

Quakers, Jews and other religious groups settled in Rhode Island.

After forming the first Baptist church in America, Williams left it to seek spirituality in different ways. He stopped preaching to his friends, the native Indians, when he realized that their form of worship also fell under his principle of religious freedom.

http://www.livescience.com/mysteries/080624-llm-church-state.html

somewhat off topic, but interesting none the less

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
And the Mongols created the largest empire to ever be seen. Even more impressive. And second, they were not the cause. Internal corruption and lack of Italian soldiers in the legions were the major factors.

British Empire?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
British Empire?
Point 1 to GMG.

keep the state, burn the church. lol.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Point 1 to GMG.

😂

I never thought I would ever say this in my whole life and at one time prayed that I would never think this way, but the church or some churches has really mentally screwed up so many peoples thinking that I don't believe there will be any peace. It is all for them or all for non. My way or the highway.

Someone once quoted, and I don't remember who it was, "The church causes mental illness." When I had read that a long time ago I was horrified being a Christian and very outraged, but now, I really do agree. It segregates us, divides us, makes us judge each other, condemns.

There is nothing good that can come from it unless you follow only the goodness of the words you read and do it with your own actions.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
I never thought I would ever say this in my whole life and at one time prayed that I would never think this way, but the church or some churches has really mentally screwed up so many peoples thinking that I don't believe there will be any peace. It is all for them or all for non. My way or the highway.

Someone once quoted, and I don't remember who it was, "The church causes mental illness." When I had read that a long time ago I was horrified being a Christian and very outraged, but now, I really do agree. It segregates us, divides us, makes us judge each other, condemns.

There is nothing good that can come from it unless you follow only the goodness of the words you read and do it with your own actions.

Your the one who is ill.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Someone once quoted, and I don't remember who it was, "The church causes mental illness." When I had read that a long time ago I was horrified being a Christian and very outraged.

You should have been outraged simply because it doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
but now, I really do agree. It segregates us, divides us, makes us judge each other, condemns.

A) It can cause those things, none of them are absolute results.
B) None of those are mental illnesses.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You should have been outraged simply because it doesn't make sense.

careful

Originally posted by inimalist
careful

About using rationality?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
British Empire?

It matters. India wasn't under direct rule, neither was Canada or Australia when the British were at their peak. The British Empire were a confederacy of dominions by then more than anything.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
It matters. India wasn't under direct rule, neither was Canada or Australia when the British were at their peak. The British Empire were a confederacy of dominions by then more than anything.

It was still bigger than the Mongol Empire...even when it wasn't.

If you exclude any one any one of those, no. The British Empire would be smaller.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
If you exclude any one any one of those, no. The British Empire would be smaller.

You can't exclude them though...because they were part of the Empire.

Not really. They were autonomous regions, especially Canada and Australia. They were allies, not regions by the height of the British empire.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Not really. They were autonomous regions, especially Canada and Australia. They were allies, not regions by the height of the British empire.

I'm sorry, it wasn't until early 1900s that Canada was not officially ruled by British parliament, and to this day all of our legislation must be approved by the Queen.

India, while having some ability to govern itself in the princely states, largely was administered by Brits, in India. Britain had such control of India, that it destroyed it massive textile economy, intentionally, in order to make the market ripe for British exports.

Britain was not Rome, but the idea that they didn't have direct control of Canada or India is preposterous. Like, would Gandhi be such a momentous figure, especially with regards to Hindu and Indian nationalism, if Britain had not controlled India?