Church before state.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
The people were uneducated and probably couldn't understand what the Bible meant anyway- even if they could read it. However, Luther didn't like what he saw as the trimmings of Christianity and wanted rid of the sacraments, including confession.

no, totally

However, just about the communication, it had always seemed to be a very effective social control to keep people essentially powerless in understanding their own lives and fate, keep them dependant on the church system.

I'm sure there probably is good scriptural reference that says people have that direct line, I just thought the idea that people needed the priest was one that harkens back to the day where the church was pervasive in everything people did.

Originally posted by inimalist
no, totally

However, just about the communication, it had always seemed to be a very effective social control to keep people essentially powerless in understanding their own lives and fate, keep them dependant on the church system.

I'm sure there probably is good scriptural reference that says people have that direct line, I just thought the idea that people needed the priest was one that harkens back to the day where the church was pervasive in everything people did.

I'm talking; The world would be a better place without country sovereingty and different political parties. We're getting played by every governements right now. We could all be played by one governement instead. At least there would be less wars in the world. Umm, I'll change the sentence: There's a more proper establishment to start achieving world's peace.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
...that means nothing.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Which he has, by biblical constitution the power to expand at any moment of time.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Quite possibly, but that wouldn't stop him from doing it though would it?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
He cannot overstep his power because his power is absolute. (Theoretically) However, you are correct people would probably ignore him or act against him yet, what the majority of people do doesn't necessarily reflect the right action or indeed what God wants.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
He can overstep his power because he is a spiritual leader, not a politician. The Church as a whole would see that and said Pope would not be followed or respected as a vicar of God.

The Bible teaches that you must be aware of different evils on this Earth. One or them is politics. Why would the Pope enter a dimension condemned by God?. Doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
It means calling for a genocide is nothing like how the power has been used.

And people also have the power to ignore him expanding and oppose, and also the Pope would not be allowed by the Cardinals. If he tried to expand it to the point of overstepping his job as a spiritual leader, he would be reprimanded.

It wouldn't matter. If a Pope abused his position he would be completely discredited.

He can overstep his power because he is a spiritual leader, not a politician. The Church as a whole would see that and said Pope would not be followed or respected as a vicar of God.

Everything you said is how it might work in reality, but that has no baring or ability to change in terms of the Catholic Theology...so what you said is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Everything you said is how it might work in reality, but that has no baring or ability to change in terms of the Catholic Theology...so what you said is irrelevant.

So, Catholic Theology has nothing to do with reality?

Originally posted by Mandos
The Bible teaches that you must be aware of different evils on this Earth. One or them is politics. Why would the Pope enter a dimension condemned by God?. Doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Everything you said is how it might work in reality, but that has no baring or ability to change in terms of the Catholic Theology...so what you said is irrelevant.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Reality is what matters, not a loophole in Catholic Theology that wouldn't be exploited because no one would allow it to be.

Could they not be the same, reality and theology? Couldn't we live better, you think?

Originally posted by Mandos
I'm talking; The world would be a better place without country sovereingty and different political parties. We're getting played by every governements right now. We could all be played by one governement instead. At least there would be less wars in the world. Umm, I'll change the sentence: There's a more proper establishment to start achieving world's peace.

considering how effective national governments are, I would caution against putting all of your eggs in that basket

imho, you are better believing in anarcho-primitivism than in that type of facism

Originally posted by inimalist
considering how effective national governments are, I would caution against putting all of your eggs in that basket

imho, you are better believing in anarcho-primitivism than in that type of facism

😆 I guess you are right. I would think that anarcho-primitivism could lead to a better set of life that what we have now (more in about 25 years or so). But giving all the power to the Church, who has no political power, no army, nothing but the words of God. Would it not be reassuring?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, Catholic Theology has nothing to do with reality?

When discussing things Shaky you get

In Theory

and

In Practice

Now, what should happen In Theory will not often happen In Practice, but that doesn't change the way it should happen In Theory.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
When discussing things Shaky you get

In Theory

and

In Practice

Now, what should happen In Theory will not often happen In Practice, but that doesn't change the way it should happen In Theory.

If theory does not translate into practice then there is something wrong with the theory.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
When discussing things Shaky you get

In Theory

and

In Practice

Now, what should happen In Theory will not often happen In Practice, but that doesn't change the way it should happen In Theory.

You're talking about religion or chemistry? 😛

Originally posted by Mandos
😆 I guess you are right. I would think that anarcho-primitivism could lead to a better set of life that what we have now (more in about 25 years or so).

While this goes way beyond the scope of this thread, I fail to see how life reverted back to a feral state could possibly improve the situation of any humans, including those living in some of the worst conditions in the world.

If you want, hit me with your thoughts via PM, I'd be interested in why you want to give up everything that makes you human.

Originally posted by Mandos
But giving all the power to

You can actually stop there. I don't believe in giving power to anyone, as I believe that authority is inherently immoral and leads to human suffering.

Originally posted by Mandos
the Church, who has no political power, no army, nothing but the words of God. Would it not be reassuring?

With specific regard to the church:

I am a scientist. The idea that any ridiculous superstition is given more authority than observable, verifiable fact is absurd and in my opinion one of the reasons why the western world faces so much challange from India and China. Neither have such ridiculous religiously imposed prohibitions on research or censorship of science based on religious grounds, and in fact, are investing massively in R&D. Science undermines religious authority, and you should be damned well happy for it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If theory does not translate into practice then there is something wrong with the theory.

Or there is something wrong with the world.

Originally posted by Mandos
😆 I guess you are right. I would think that anarcho-primitivism could lead to a better set of life that what we have now (more in about 25 years or so).

Funny thing is, the system we have now could get us the same thing. Totalitarianism is the only system that can give any gaurentee of success because the only thing it needs is a competent leader. All other systems--communism, democracy, anarchy, libertarianism--need the people or a group to do the right thing.

Originally posted by inimalist
If you want, hit me with your thoughts via PM, I'd be interested in why you want to give up everything that makes you human.

Maybe everything we have now makes us less human.

Originally posted by Mandos
Could they not be the same, reality and theology? Couldn't we live better, you think?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Funny thing is, the system we have now could get us the same thing. Totalitarianism is the only system that can give any gaurentee of success because the only thing it needs is a competent leader. All other systems--communism, democracy, anarchy, libertarianism--need the people or a group to do the right thing.

Amen. Just create an easy way to take power from the leader if incompetent and you have yourself a pretty good ''government''.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Or there is something wrong with the world.

I think it is a simpler idea that the theology of humans is flawed, then to say that a human's idea is right and the world is wrong.