Originally posted by Air LegendPerhaps because Surfer's mind [however amped it may be] is still mortal - and it would be hard for any mortal mind to comprehend/tap the seemingly endless well of power he has access to?
I always wondered why SS and his plethora of powerful abilities is limited to a 'high herald' level.
Could this self imposed 'safeguard' be why Galactus empowers regular mortals, instead of simply creating them?
Originally posted by Air Legend
So the most popular consensus is that Surfer can take 3 wins out of 10?
I always wondered why SS and his plethora of powerful abilities is limited to a 'high herald' level. Can someone with vast knowledge about this topic please answer this?
Originally posted by Galan007
Perhaps because Surfer's mind [however amped it may be] is still mortal - and it would be hard for any mortal mind to comprehend/tap the seemingly endless well of power he has access to?Could this self imposed 'safeguard' be why Galactus empowers regular mortals, instead of simply creating them?
And if you don't mind, how many wins can SS take against Darkseid, and just how exactly does Darkseid beat SS?
Originally posted by Air Legend
That's very plausible, but what about cosmic awareness? Shouldn't that help him grasp the powers he's endowed with?And if you don't mind, how many wins can SS take against Darkseid, and just how exactly does Darkseid beat SS?
If I may, I think it is very possible as well that SS' mortal mind causes him to make decisions that are considered irrational for his role. CA should definitely allow SS to understand his powers to a high enough degree to use them, but from a writer's point of view, it is simply much easier to create conflict stemming from a human core. Of course, with SS' human nature comes its inherent weaknesses, as seen in his overly pacifist nature, being unwilling to make difficult choices but mathematically logical choices (e.g. kill one to save a thousand) and his inability to function properly as a herald, but with human nature also comes the potential for the "hogan comeback".
As for why SS is still high herald, I guess there are two main reasons. The first is his refusal to go all-out against powerful enemies. The second is simply that while SS may be extremely versatile, versatility counts for nothing if it cannot trump what a less-versatile trans being excels at. SS can't beat Thanos because the majority of his powers are nerfed by the latter's eternal nature and durability, and the fact that only one party can seriously hurt the other. Other trans beings have much greater power output, like DS, and so on and so forth. Using an analogy, a kickboxer would almost always do better being able to execute a single kick perfectly than being able to perform all kinds of strikes to a merely average level. Of course, certain beings above SS are simply almost as versatile but with a proportionately higher power output etc. Oh, and for story purposes, SS is a hero, which means that he HAS to upset the status quo that villains create, which means that the impetus is always on him to take his enemies of of the equation, which may not allow him to perform optimally, when taking his nature into consideration.
The question on why G empowers mortals to be his heralds instead of simply creating them is extremely interesting though. My take is that G, for all his innate power, doesn't understand mortal natures well enough to create a suitable herald. The Tyrant failure and the possible need for companionship may also figure.
Originally posted by batdude123
How presumptuous of you. 🙂
Call it what you like, Im just as curious as Air legends and this be good research for drawing a comic fan base im planning to make..
How would Darkseid beat KMC Surfer?
Originally posted by fangirl101
Sends the omega beams back in time and kills norrin rad.
Originally posted by Galan007
Could this self imposed 'safeguard' be why Galactus empowers regular mortals, instead of simply creating them?
Originally posted by Ouallada
If I may, I think it is very possible as well that SS' mortal mind causes him to make decisions that are considered irrational for his role. CA should definitely allow SS to understand his powers to a high enough degree to use them, but from a writer's point of view, it is simply much easier to create conflict stemming from a human core. Of course, with SS' human nature comes its inherent weaknesses, as seen in his overly pacifist nature, being unwilling to make difficult choices but mathematically logical choices (e.g. kill one to save a thousand) and his inability to function properly as a herald, but with human nature also comes the potential for the "hogan comeback".
Yea, I agree that practicality plays a significant role.
Originally posted by Ouallada
As for why SS is still high herald, I guess there are two main reasons. The first is his refusal to go all-out against powerful enemies. The second is simply that while SS may be extremely versatile, versatility counts for nothing if it cannot trump what a less-versatile trans being excels at. SS can't beat Thanos because the majority of his powers are nerfed by the latter's eternal nature and durability, and the fact that only one party can seriously hurt the other. Other trans beings have much greater power output, like DS, and so on and so forth. Using an analogy, a kickboxer would almost always do better being able to execute a single kick perfectly than being able to perform all kinds of strikes to a merely average level. Of course, certain beings above SS are simply almost as versatile but with a proportionately higher power output etc. Oh, and for story purposes, SS is a hero, which means that he HAS to upset the status quo that villains create, which means that the impetus is always on him to take his enemies of of the equation, which may not allow him to perform optimally, when taking his nature into consideration.
In response to your second reason, very good points. However, I think it's reasonable that SS, with all his capabilities, can create more problems to higher beings such as Thanos. I'm pretty sure SS with CA can think of a way to harness enough energy to hurt Thanos to an effective degree, instead of getting knocked out in four or so punches.
Originally posted by Ouallada
The question on why G empowers mortals to be his heralds instead of simply creating them is extremely interesting though. My take is that G, for all his innate power, doesn't understand mortal natures well enough to create a suitable herald. The Tyrant failure and the possible need for companionship may also figure.
Originally posted by Ambient
Maybe 🙂 ..So how exactly would DS get all the information needed to find Norrin in the past to kill him? Does he have cosmic awareness of some sort?
He's already done this kind of feat a few times. Most notably, when he sent Kanto back in time, and then brought him back with his powers right after Kanto won a sword duel.
And he has temporal awareness enough to know about his future self and that the timeline has been disrupted.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He's already done this kind of feat a few times. Most notably, when he sent Kanto back in time, and then brought him back with his powers right after Kanto won a sword duel.
Surfer himself is capable of a similar feat by manipulating pure chronal energies, could bfr anyone using this abilities..
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1997_129_04.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1997_129_05.jpg
Scan above was done by his clone that he made so i dont see why the real one cant do it..
And he has temporal awareness enough to know about his future self and that the timeline has been disrupted.
My question still unanswered..
Originally posted by Air LegendIn response to your first reason, has the Silver Surfer ever gone all out in a story? If yes, what abilities/powers did he display?
In response to your second reason, very good points. However, I think it's reasonable that SS, with all his capabilities, can create more problems to higher beings such as Thanos. I'm pretty sure SS with CA can think of a way to harness enough energy to hurt Thanos to an effective degree, instead of getting knocked out in four or so punches.
One could argue that SS is basically not holding back after his annihilation "upgrade", so any fights including the second Ravenous one and after would be him going all out. He has gone all out against Tyrant, Morg and superskrull before. His powers were basically the same, simply with added juice, and perhaps a willingness to maim/kill his opponent. He has shown some creative powers against superskrull, but nothing that he has not shown before. He wasn't really a match for Tyrant nor Morg, so I will leave those two alone.
I agree that SS should be doing better against Thanos, especially post annihilation, but Thanos is still a tough ***** to put down, and lacks weaknesses save Drax, whose ability I doubt SS can replicate. I really don't think it's a shame to not be able to hurt Thanos, to be honest. As for that incident in which Thanos beat SS to death, it was a little bit of a cheapshot from Thanos, though.
Originally posted by Ouallada
One could argue that SS is basically not holding back after his annihilation "upgrade", so any fights including the second Ravenous one and after would be him going all out. He has gone all out against Tyrant, Morg and superskrull before. His powers were basically the same, simply with added juice, and perhaps a willingness to maim/kill his opponent. He has shown some creative powers against superskrull, but nothing that he has not shown before. He wasn't really a match for Tyrant nor Morg, so I will leave those two alone.
Tyrant yeah but Morg he was a match; First encounter he was taken by surprise but the second he could have killed him if he so choose..
I think the upgrade gave him a better durability, added juice, higher capacity to manipulate exotic energy... Just my 2 cents..
Originally posted by Ambient
Check out recent issue of Nova, the Black Panther incident; what Surfer said to Storm and going back to Ravenous; what reason is there for him to let Ravenous lived? To me this is clear, he still holds back..Tyrant yeah but Morg he was a match; First encounter he was taken by surprise but the second he could have killed him if he so choose..
I think the upgrade gave him a better durability, added juice, higher capacity to manipulate exotic energy... Just my 2 cents..
In my opinion, SS was going all out against Nova. It was simply out of character for him to wordlessly dismantle an opponent. Maybe all out is a little too extreme in that case as Nova is still a person that SS knows to be a hero, but I think it's pretty obvious that he wasn't his usual self there. As for the BP hammerlock, I completely disregard that incident 😛
As for why he let Ravenous live, its the same reason why he let superskrull live, even though there were plenty of ways (and a stated on-panel reason as well) in which SS could have killed him. It simply isn't in his character to kill an enemy by willing choice.
I was actually referring to the WOL Morg, after Nova was killed.
I agree with your assessment of his upgraded abilities when bloodlusted.
Originally posted by Ouallada
In my opinion, SS was going all out against Nova. It was simply out of character for him to wordlessly dismantle an opponent. Maybe all out is a little too extreme in that case as Nova is still a person that SS knows to be a hero, but I think it's pretty obvious that he wasn't his usual self there. As for the BP hammerlock, I completely disregard that incident :
I was referring to Surfer conversation with Storm/Thing prior to the arm bar incident; he does not wish to harm them..
All this point out to holding back..
What i think is when G upgraded Surfer he also took out the remorse part if he does decide to kill, no quilt but Im not convince that his bloodlusted everytime he goes into a fight unlike what you think.. Just my 2 cents 🙂 ..
It simply isn't in his character to kill an enemy by willing choice.
I was actually referring to the WOL Morg, after Nova was killed.
Surfer 2nd fight with him; Morg had pc and Wol as it stayed with him, way before Tyrant nearly suck him dry till his death shown in 1st annihilation limited series and the bio..
http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=morgsx1.jpg
This makes me think that Surfer fought a more Powerfull Morg in they're rematch.. Surfer>>>>Morg.. power of speculation..lol
My 2 cents..
Originally posted by Ambient
Surfer intention was to get Nova out of Galactus immediate range of perception, big G does not want his heralds to fraternitized with lower life form resulting in Surfers muteness, by no means he was going all out in that issue..I was referring to Surfer conversation with Storm/Thing prior to the arm bar incident; he does not wish to harm them..
All this point out to holding back..
What i think is when G upgraded Surfer he also took out the remorse part if he does decide to kill, no quilt but Im not convince that his bloodlusted everytime he goes into a fight unlike what you think.. Just my 2 cents 🙂 ..
Make sense for him not to go all out unless otherwise ordered by G..
I can agree with the fact that he was not trying to kill Nova, but the same can be said of the superskrull fight, in which SS was clearly bloodlusted. Both of those fights have parallels in that aspect. Perhaps the post annihilation examples aren't true instances of him going all out, but they are far enough from the way he is typically portrayed to assume that he was far less pacifist than usual. I suggested those to the poster who asked for instances of a bloodlusted SS because of that very reason.
Which brings me to the next point, that SS never was, isn't and will probably never be a killer. If he failed to kill ravenous when the reason was surely pertinent enough, I think that it is fair to believe that whatever G did in annihilation, it certainly didn't alter SS' ethos. It may have altered his approach and made him more willing to dish out more damage in faster manners, but it certainly has shown no signs of making him a character that is suddenly willing to kill. I think that this was reflected well enough by his dismantling of nova being offset by him choosing to help shield the space ships -- he may be willing to put his enemies down faster, but he certainly still values all life.
I'm not sure if bloodlusted is the correct way to describe SS in his fights (it probably isn't), but I think it is obvious enough that he certainly holds back less. It's more of a halfway thing.
Originally posted by Ouallada
I can agree with the fact that he was not trying to kill Nova, but the same can be said of the superskrull fight, in which SS was clearly bloodlusted. Both of those fights have parallels in that aspect. Perhaps the post annihilation examples aren't true instances of him going all out, but they are far enough from the way he is typically portrayed to assume that he was far less pacifist than usual. I suggested those to the poster who asked for instances of a bloodlusted SS because of that very reason.
I think Surfer well and always be a pacifist (to value life; it cant be less or more) that is the core of his character.. What i think I've seen differ in post annihilation Surfer is that he is far more removed from his emotion, nothing really new this have been explored in past storyline before...
Originally posted by Ouallada
I'm not sure if bloodlusted is the correct way to describe SS in his fights (it probably isn't), but I think it is obvious enough that he certainly holds back less. It's more of a halfway thing.
We are really going off topic here 😄 ..
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Darkseid 7/10. Now in answer to the why SS is still high herald level question, I think it is due his mindset which reduces his output. Give him a few years of training under a watcher and he might move to the next level
