Kakarot Respect Thread

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Nij-ayias don't turn this into another Superman versus Goku topic. This isn't the place to air your grudges against the people who have the temerity to think Goku isn't God all mighty.

I'm not the one who started this, I know Goku can't destroy universe and can't resist a universe buster. Most important of all, I know Goku is not the strongest but in this site dbz is underestimated to the point of 90% of the feats are hyperbole or he cant do it or he just bluffing and etc. Dragon Ball is underestimated in this site.

Fisrt of all, I know Goku can't destroy a universe and I know Goku can't resist a universe buster. Most important of all, I know Goku is not the strongest.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

Considering he doesn't actively radiate energy, I don't see your point.
We already know the Kaios can sense things from other dimensions - North Kaio (King Kai) did it all the time. It's usable as a sensory feat for them, but completely useless as a power feat.

You lacked knowledge, is that what you call hardly a pretender?

They dont sense energy from its radiation, its from the presence of energy. They can sense a non-radiating energy, for example normal humans or any z-fighter who is not radiating his energy like yajirobee.

Its about SSJ3 Goku's energy reaching another dimension. It was stated that its enough to reach another dimension. Stated by Kibito.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Redemption was pretty much invincible as long as his congregation believed in him. He shrugged off attacks that would kill most DBZ characters (such as being pulled into space and smashed back to the earth through re-entry). I'm not as familiar with Blackrock.

That feat didn't even shake the whole planet.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Anyway, what makes you think they can't destroy a city? Because they haven't done so? Using that type of logic, we can say that the only people in DBZ who can destroy a planet are Frieza, Cell, and Kid Buu.

Redemption and blackrock can't destroy a city because there are no proofs or energy measurement to back it up

You can't apply that logic of yours in dragon ball z because in dragon ball z there are energy measuring device and they can also sense their enemies' energy as a proof. You can't just say that its nothing because Toriyama made it that way, not from you logic and opinion.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Let's look at, say, Android 17. What actual feats does he have? Pretty much none. But you would obviously say he is strong because of the way he competed against characters who had feats. Same goes for Superman's enemies who give him trouble.

They cant sense the androids energy so the only feat here is 17 single handedly defeated a super saiyajin without any effort. Again don't apply your logic of yours because this is dragon ball z.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
But the point is, we don't know how much energy.

Enough to reach another dimension.

Originally posted by Kento
The DB world is smaller. Maybe not the planet size itself but there are a lot of large areas of nothing but desert with nobody living there, and only a few major cities and some tiny villages.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The full extent of the urbanization and population was never shown.

There are a lot of barren areas on earth - 70% of the surface is covered by water, and there is Antarctica, the Sahara, the Gobi desert, the American southwest, rainforests, Austrailian outback, etc.

We really haven't seen such a great amount of DBZ earth's surface to make such a judgement, IMHO

In terms of dbz knowledge, is that what you call hardly a pretender?

Originally posted by nij-ayias
You lacked knowledge, is that what you call hardly a pretender?

They dont sense energy from its radiation, its from the presence of energy. They can sense a non-radiating energy, for example normal humans or any z-fighter who is not radiating his energy like yajirobee.

You do know that I was using the term "radiate" not in terms of radiation as we normally define it, but in terms of "emitting energy", right?

In DBZ, every living thing has ki. That ki gives off a detectable signature. Some living beings and mechanical devices can detect this signature. This is a sensory ability.

Its about SSJ3 Goku's energy reaching another dimension. It was stated that its enough to reach another dimension. Stated by Kibito.

And your point is.....? King Kai could already sense things in other dimensions back in the Saiya-jin saga. In fact that Kais and Kaioshins were supposed to monitor the universe by sensing it from their dimensions. Keep in mind that Goku could not sense Gotenks' and Buu's ki from the Room of Spirit and Time (a different dimension), they needed the Old Kaioshin to show them the fight.

That feat didn't even shake the whole planet.

What's your point? Most DBZ characters can't survive in space without oxygen to breathe, and get hurt from being knocked through a few hills.

Redemption and blackrock can't destroy a city because there are no proofs or energy measurement to back it up

They contended with Superman, who is far above that level. That's the proof.

You can't apply that logic of yours in dragon ball z because in dragon ball z there are energy measuring device and they can also sense their enemies' energy as a proof. You can't just say that its nothing because Toriyama made it that way, not from you logic and opinion.

The androids had no ki....

They cant sense the androids energy so the only feat here is 17 single handedly defeated a super saiyajin without any effort. Again don't apply your logic of yours because this is dragon ball z.

Special pleading fallacy.

Android 17 beats people with feats. That means he is capable of those feats too.

Redemption challenges someone with feats. That means he's weak and Superman's feats don't count?

The double standard here is sickening.

Be consistent.

Either android 17 can't even destroy a city, and that means the people he beat are weak, or android 17 is on their level, and that means Redemption is on or near Superman's level.

Enough to reach another dimension.

How is that quantifiable? We know the Kaios can sense things in other dimensions. King Kai did it back in the Saiyan saga. We know the simple radiating of ki can be sensed in other dimensions. It's useful as a sensory feat, not as a power feat.

In terms of dbz knowledge, is that what you call hardly a pretender?

In case you didn't pick up on it, I was arguing against Kento there. I see no reason to assume DB Earth is smaller than our earth..

Originally posted by Endless Mike

What's your point? Most DBZ characters can't survive in space without oxygen to breathe, and get hurt from being knocked through a few hills.

I would agree about the oxygen, even with Gotenks going around earth, but i disagree about being knocked in few hills and get hurt, i think is understimation from your part, mostly because what hurt them is the punch of the enemy, perhaps if you are refering to early DBZ probably i would agree, i dont recall any of the mayor characters being hurt by being send into hills in the end of Z

for example in The fight Gohan vs Superbuu what is show is that Gohan is hurt by the punchs.

The power of punch also is show when gohan defeat the Cell juniors.

the top fights is against Buu, hard to destroy rubber that regenarate. the punchs change the shape of his body.

Basing in what the history is about, and that each saga is a continuation of the previous, is logic for me to think that if Freeza will show against SSJ 2 or 3, he will be pulverize like the Cell juniors, even the Kai o Shin say He could defeat Freeza with one blow.

And Freeza survive a planet explosion with his body cut in half and weakened.

Goku vs Slug.

This movie does not fit in the canon historyline

Slug is ancient super Namek

YouTube video

Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycyh7b-lReE&feature=related
warning, Loud sound.

Supreme Kai states that he and his fellow ( diseased superme kais) where each 1000X Friezas power !! Plus the Kais are Omniscient ( All Knowing) Suprme Kais seems wek because he is agasint someone like Majin Buu whodestroyed entire galaxys, supremeb kai cud crack a planet in 2 wit a single thoat !!

Originally posted by Vvendeta
I would agree about the oxygen, even with Gotenks going around earth, but i disagree about being knocked in few hills and get hurt, i think is understimation from your part, mostly because what hurt them is the punch of the enemy, perhaps if you are refering to early DBZ probably i would agree, i dont recall any of the mayor characters being hurt by being send into hills in the end of Z

for example in The fight Gohan vs Superbuu what is show is that Gohan is hurt by the punchs.

The power of punch also is show when gohan defeat the Cell juniors.

Cell kicked Gohan through a small hill and Gohan was bleeding from it.

the top fights is against Buu, hard to destroy rubber that regenarate. the punchs change the shape of his body.

Well obviously Buu is a special case, since he can regenerate his wounds easily.

Basing in what the history is about, and that each saga is a continuation of the previous, is logic for me to think that if Freeza will show against SSJ 2 or 3, he will be pulverize like the Cell juniors, even the Kai o Shin say He could defeat Freeza with one blow.

And Freeza survive a planet explosion with his body cut in half and weakened.

Surviving is different from being unharmed. Frieza would have died if his father hadn't found him.

Supreme Kai states that he and his fellow ( diseased superme kais) where each 1000X Friezas power !!

That was only in the dub. In the manga he said they could kill Frieza with one blast.

Let me ask you again, have you actually read the Dragonball manga or just watched the dubbed anime?

Plus the Kais are Omniscient ( All Knowing)

....No they're not. If they were, they wouldn't have needed help to find Babibi, they wouldn't have been surprised at how strong the Saiya-jins were, they wouldn't have been uncertain about the outcome of all of those battles, Kaioshin would have known about Old Kaioshin being in the sword.... etc. That's an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Suprme Kais seems wek because he is agasint someone like Majin Buu whodestroyed entire galaxys

Filler, again. You've already been corrected on this.

supremeb kai cud crack a planet in 2 wit a single thoat !!

Assuming you mean "thought", I see absolutely no evidence to suggest this.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do know that I was using the term "radiate" not in terms of radiation as we normally define it, but in terms of "emitting energy", right?

Every living things are emitting energy like aura including Superman. Still it doesn't change the fact that Superman's energy or power was not enough to reach another dimension. Besides, Modern-Superman is weaker than Superman in OWAW storyline. Superman (in OWAW storyline) radiates his energy, did it reach another dimension? NO.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
In DBZ, every living thing has ki. That ki gives off a detectable signature. Some living beings and mechanical devices can detect this signature. This is a sensory ability.?

Superman is a living thing and the energy or aura from his body cannot reach another dimension.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And your point is.....? King Kai could already sense things in other dimensions back in the Saiya-jin saga. In fact that Kais and Kaioshins were supposed to monitor the universe by sensing it from their dimensions. Keep in mind that Goku could not sense Gotenks' and Buu's ki from the Room of Spirit and Time (a different dimension), they needed the Old Kaioshin to show them the fight.?

In fact, Kaioshin and Kibito were training Gohan to master the Z-sword, they're not monitoring the universe when SSJ3 Goku's power disturbed their training in the Kaiohshin Kai. Is that what you call "HARDLY A CONTENDER"?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
What's your point? Most DBZ characters can't survive in space without oxygen to breathe, and get hurt from being knocked through a few hills.

Since when it was stated that the lack of oxygen could kill a saiyan? Toriyama accepts the Bardock Story as a part of manga-continuity Gotenks flew outside the planet.
Normal humans can swim and hold their breath in water, does that mean that human can live or survive in water? Of course not.
Goku in his teenage years survived a dropped from a thousand miles. Its the impact of the attacks that hurt them, not the few hills.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

They contended with Superman, who is far above that level. That's the proof.

The androids had no ki....

Special pleading fallacy.

Android 17 beats people with feats. That means he is capable of those feats too.

Redemption challenges someone with feats. That means he's weak and Superman's feats don't count?

The double standard here is sickening.

Be consistent.

Either android 17 can't even destroy a city, and that means the people he beat are weak, or android 17 is on their level, and that means Redemption is on or near Superman's level.

You're underestimating Superman by saying that Redemption is on or near Superman's level. I know, you know it yourself that Superman is always holding back and that he rarely use his true power.
This statement was about Redemption and Dragon Ball, not Superman and Dragon Ball. Again, Redemption can't destroy a city and he's not holding back while Superman is always holding back. Superman is not a killer and he always holds back while Redemption is doing his best but still he can't destroy a city in a single wave of his hand.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

How is that quantifiable? We know the Kaios can sense things in other dimensions. King Kai did it back in the Saiyan saga. We know the simple radiating of ki can be sensed in other dimensions. It's useful as a sensory feat, not as a power feat.

What are you talking about? Is that hardly pretender? Kaioshin and Kibito were training Gohan to master the Z-sword, they're not monitoring the universe when SSJ3 Goku's power disturbed their training in the Kaiohshin Kai.

Originally posted by Vvendeta
I would agree about the oxygen, even with Gotenks going around earth, but i disagree about being knocked in few hills and get hurt, i think is understimation from your part, mostly because what hurt them is the punch of the enemy, perhaps if you are refering to early DBZ probably i would agree, i dont recall any of the mayor characters being hurt by being send into hills in the end of Z

for example in The fight Gohan vs Superbuu what is show is that Gohan is hurt by the punchs.

The power of punch also is show when gohan defeat the Cell juniors.[quote/]

[quote]ENDLESS MIKE:
Cell kicked Gohan through a small hill and Gohan was bleeding from it.

What i remember is that Cell hold Gohan clothes, punch him many times in the face and use the technique called Kia to send gohan in this hill.

Red Ribbon Saga
In the search for the DB 4 star, Goku confront the red ribbon army
General grey

12345678

Attacking muscle tower
Surviving a plane crash
12

Deflecting Machine guns bullets with the power pole (over sound speed)

Defeating the soldiers
1234

Fighting Sgt Metallo, old android model (Arnold Swasnneger alike lol)

Hitting the robot with his head

1
2334

Rocket Attack
123

Disintegrating the robot’s head

123

Defeating General White

Fighting General Blue

122345

Crossover Arale-Goku

1234567

Karin tower Saga

12345

Karin Tower part 2
678910111213

Tao Pai Pai
The world greatest assassin.
Sorry not english
original Japanese

YouTube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kjsns2Rgb8

YouTube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFWfeKPfRZI

YouTube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=714gdziKj_0

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do know that I was using the term "radiate" not in terms of radiation as we normally define it, but in terms of "emitting energy", right?

In DBZ, every living thing has ki. That ki gives off a detectable signature. Some living beings and mechanical devices can detect this signature. This is a sensory ability.

And your point is.....? King Kai could already sense things in other dimensions back in the Saiya-jin saga. In fact that Kais and Kaioshins were supposed to monitor the universe by sensing it from their dimensions. Keep in mind that Goku could not sense Gotenks' and Buu's ki from the Room of Spirit and Time (a different dimension), they needed the Old Kaioshin to show them the fight.

What's your point? Most DBZ characters can't survive in space without oxygen to breathe, and get hurt from being knocked through a few hills.

They contended with Superman, who is far above that level. That's the proof.

The androids had no ki....

Special pleading fallacy.

Android 17 beats people with feats. That means he is capable of those feats too.

Redemption challenges someone with feats. That means he's weak and Superman's feats don't count?

The double standard here is sickening.

Be consistent.

Either android 17 can't even destroy a city, and that means the people he beat are weak, or android 17 is on their level, and that means Redemption is on or near Superman's level.

How is that quantifiable? We know the Kaios can sense things in other dimensions. King Kai did it back in the Saiyan saga. We know the simple radiating of ki can be sensed in other dimensions. It's useful as a sensory feat, not as a power feat.

In case you didn't pick up on it, I was arguing against Kento there. I see no reason to assume DB Earth is smaller than our earth..

get out of a dbz respect posting superman crap. Realize this, goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Superman, and thats being nice. When superman stop getting one shotted by konvict, despero, and titus then maybe he would be close to there level. Superman on a daily basis have trouble with mere bricks, how in the hell is he going to fight someone he cant see.

Cel can survive in space, as can Buu, saiyans are trickey when it comes to breathing in space, as frieza states he destroyed the planet namek so that goku wouldnt have any more air to breathe, however bardock is in space when he confronts frieza, vegeta and nappa are in space when vegeta destroys the planet areila on the way to earth, nd gohan piccolo and krillin fight dr wheelo in space !