religious war for the presidency has begun.

Originally posted by Devil King
Again, it's a false comparison. Freedom of religious expression is addressed, but no specific religion is noted in that freedom. How and what people think is totally fair game (as I have always said); but how that is meant to influence the government is alos addressed. The mentioning of god is NOT a moot point when there are so many that base the argument on the god being mentioned is the one whose religion they happen to subscribe. Jefferson didn't mention The God. He mentioned A god. He simply did not ascribe that god to any particular denomination or creed. Jefferson was NOT an atheist. He can be most closely called a deist. Although I doubt in this day and age he would have reasoned that god simply walked away from something he had created. (pay attention Quiero) He simply wouldn't have seen the need for an all-knowing god to play babysitter and list-maker to his own creation that he would have known everything about before he walked away; being all-knowing and such. Jefferson was no christian, but he wasn't an atheist either. And somehow the idea that there should be no religious test or state religion or even a consideration of one's religion or religious influence on matters of government were not only passed, but any idea to the contrary was voted not to even be considered by these so-called fundamentalist founders of our United States of America. Odd, I think, for anyone claiming this is a christian nation.

Although not technically a Christian nation, America does have many Christian based themes.

Originally posted by socool8520
Although not technically a Christian nation, America does have many Christian based themes.

Enlighten us Mr. Sock.

Originally posted by socool8520
Although not technically a Christian nation, America does have many Christian based themes.

Wow, this will be great to hear! 😱

Originally posted by Devil King
Enlighten us Mr. Sock.

"God bless America"

Originally posted by Devil King
Enlighten us Mr. Sock.

What is this sock thing?

Originally posted by socool8520
What is this sock thing?

A sock is a user who has been banned from the forum but has managed to create a new account in order to continue their trolling ways.

Not necessarily trolling. In most cases, it's been to continue their dumb**** posting habits.

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Not necessarily trolling. In most cases, it's been to continue their dumb**** posting habits.

I've never had an account here until recently. I don't know why people thought that was a dumb post. It's true, America does have many Christian influences. Many of them are in our laws and such. Hell there's even a few Bible belt states that don't allow Porn, tattoos and stuff. Where was I incorrect?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
"God bless America"

America is... special.

Originally posted by Mandos
America is... special.

And the rest of the world......isn't 😄

Originally posted by socool8520
I've never had an account here until recently. I don't know why people thought that was a dumb post. It's true, America does have many Christian influences. Many of them are in our laws and such. Hell there's even a few Bible belt states that don't allow Porn, tattoos and stuff. Where was I incorrect?

Those aren't national laws. The only thing that makes America a "Christian nation" is the combination of a) being a democracy and b) having a lot of Christian citizens. It's been proven many times over in this thread that America is not inherently Christian.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Those aren't national laws. The only thing that makes America a "Christian nation" is the combination of a) being a democracy and b) having a lot of Christian citizens. It's been proven many times over in this thread that America is not inherently Christian.

Like I said, Influences. I never said it was a Christian nation.

Originally posted by Mandos
America is... special.

We are special. To quote Stripes, we're the mutt of the world and who can resist a mutt?

I just wonder how many of America's founding fathers really considered themselves Christian. Devil King and I will probably debate until the sun explodes as to whether or not Jefferson was an atheist, but I think a lot of the founding fathers just went through the motions of Christianity. Sometimes it seems like the mentioning of God where it isn't necessary seems to be an appeal to the masses rather than an expression of their own convictions. Does anyone have any insight to that?

I thought that Jefferson was a Deist.

The references don't need to be a cynical appeal to the masses OR an expression of faith. At that time in history (to my understanding) it was much less acceptable to be an atheist than it is now. It was probably an expression of the language and ideals of the age, the zeitgeist lent itself to a quasi- religious phrasing of the nation's codes.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Sometimes it seems like the mentioning of God where it isn't necessary seems to be an appeal to the masses rather than an expression of their own convictions. Does anyone have any insight to that?

Politicians, televangelist, would be saviors? Like that?

In regards to Jefferson though, there are several books who have direct quotes from his memoirs and notes. He really doesn't speak well of Paul, the OT & NT and main stream religion. Wiki has these quoted and also has the source of the books listed for a quick look.

Originally posted by socool8520
Just one of them. Pledge of Allegience. And there's more.

.....

The 'under god part' of the pledge as well as the 'in god we trust' qoute labeled on all coins and dollar bills were not present when the constitution was created nor anytime around that period. Those religious influnces are rather recent occurances.I would say late 1800's, and 1900's.

EDIT: Looks like people have already brought up that point on multiple occasions.Regardless, I believe the founding fathers would be horrified at how christianity has influenced goverment over the past couple decades.

Oh and another point to bring up------ by today's standards most of the founding fathers would be considered atheist despite actually being deist.Take Alstair Macgrath(possible spelling mistakes) for example. He is a deist I believe, but doesn't despise organized religion. I think Dawkins 'shifting moral zeitgiest' could explain this change.