Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yea exactly. The son of the chosen one really SHOULDNT have all of these powers and shouldn't be the most powerful force user in the star wars mythos, because that would be totally ridiculous. Oh wait.
Not quite what I meant. Authors rarely depict Skywalker in his full form and regard him as a deus ex machina, so they either nullify his powers or don't ever use him.
But I'm not stupid, either. Luke shouldn't be able to go "LULZ" and own everyone. He has to be threatened, otherwise the antagonist loses credibility, and thus the story suffers dramatically. Which is why Lumiya was and remains a bajillion times smarter than he will ever be. Luke's a nice guy, but he's an idiot.
LOL.
And the problem with Luke Skywalker is the fact that no one will dare write a villain more powerful than him- and in stories, it's ludicrious when the hero is more powerful than the villain. This is part of the reason why most post-RotJ things suck incredibly hard. The authors not using Luke to his full extent, despite his powers, make stories odd, weird, and unrealistic. For example: Why didn't he kill Caedus? "Because he didn't want Ben to turn the dark side!". An example of both an unrealistic thing and Luke's characteristic, annoying self-righteousness.
He deserves to die.
Originally posted by Allankles
Mara wasn't much of a big loss, it was precisely because she wasn't a big loss that the writers sacrificed her.
She made Luke tolerable imo. Her dark sense of humor and mannerisms went well with his naive point of view on things and his personality. It was just a nice balance is all.
Now that she's dead Luke bores me.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
LOL.And the problem with Luke Skywalker is the fact that no one will dare write a villain more powerful than him- and in stories, it's ludicrious when the hero is more powerful than the villain. This is part of the reason why most post-RotJ things suck incredibly hard. The authors not using Luke to his full extent, despite his powers, make stories odd, weird, and unrealistic. For example: Why didn't he kill Caedus? "Because he didn't want Ben to turn the dark side!". An example of both an unrealistic thing and Luke's characteristic, annoying self-righteousness.
He deserves to die.
This doesn't make any sense. Who would be more powerful than the son of the chosen one? The closest enemy we have is Sidious. They had to ridiculously overpower Jacen for him to be a decent villain, and that idea failed miserably.
I know. I'm personally not a big fan of planet-exploding characters (DBZ, anyone?), so I don't really like that line of EU work (Dark Empire and its likes), but I suppose if there's one character who deserves to be that, is Luke. Sure it makes sense that he's extremely powerful, but knowing that no villain can possibly match him in power is immensely annoying. I'm not saying it's entirely the fault of the authors, as no character can potentially exceed him in power, but...
Oh well. I hate the concept of the Sith's survival after RotJ, anywayz.
They should bring back some kind of uber-Sith ancient from like Ajunta Pall's age who would know a SD-load of techniques and all kind of freaky shit and make him/her/it be the anti-Luke. Nihilus would be good, didn't his holocron mention something about him actually surivingthrough his armour?
What would also be good would be if a dark-side Rakatan comes back to life. They should explore how powerful the infinate empires forceusers were and how they differ from the current era.
Anyway, Luke should die a real heroes death that will make all the pro-Lukes happy and also all the anti-Lukes. Something like the Third Hokages death in Naruto. Yeah, him losing his soul and suffering for millennia would be good.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
LOL.And the problem with Luke Skywalker is the fact that no one will dare write a villain more powerful than him- and in stories, it's ludicrious when the hero is more powerful than the villain.
Off the top of my head, I can think of two iconic superheroes who are "more powerful" than their counterparts: Superman and He-Man, who are more potent and more skilled than their archenemies: Lex Luthor and Skeletor. Does that prevent them from being threatened? No. Both Luthor and Skeletor (despite at times being portrayed remarkably campy and maniacal) both have limitless ambition and zero morality; both of them are capable of complex plots and schemes that dwarf the imagination, they're smarter than their enemies. It can work fine. It makes the villain even more impressive.
This is part of the reason why most post-RotJ things suck incredibly hard. The authors not using Luke to his full extent, despite his powers, make stories odd, weird, and unrealistic. For example: Why didn't he kill Caedus? "Because he didn't want Ben to turn the dark side!". An example of both an unrealistic thing and Luke's characteristic, annoying self-righteousness.
It defies logic to summon some magical character to suddenly outclass Luke Skywalker in Force prowess. Palpatine was the greatest and most powerful of all Sith; he's dead. Prior to that, the Jedi Purge dealt with all those who could potentially challenge the Emperor. Basically, the pool of Force users -- even in post-LotF times -- is extremely shallow. While I was exaggerating that Luke was an idiot, he's not (by any means) genius material. Characters like Grand Admiral Thrawn and even Lumiya have threatened Luke because he cannot compete with their vastly more capable intellects and calculating viciousness.
He deserves to die.
No, he doesn't. You're just being whiney.
Originally posted by Blax
Why do they have to a new villain Luke's equal in strength and powers? Thrawn is one of the greatest villains in the EU, yet he had the strength and "powers" of a normal man. He was just incredibly intelligent. I'd prefer that over some uber powerful planet busting idiot like Jacen was.
Agreed. No one, at this point, should logically be able to compete with Skywalker in natural potency after the deaths of Jacen Solo and Emperor Palpatine. Now, I can tolerate the likes of Nyax, Kueller, and Raynor using clever means to boost their Force powers and being able to challenge Skywalker, but clever villains like Thrawn and Xizor are the ones to truly fear.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
This doesn't make any sense. Who would be more powerful than the son of the chosen one? The closest enemy we have is Sidious. They had to ridiculously overpower Jacen for him to be a decent villain, and that idea failed miserably.
Once again, they are right in the fact that Luke must be challenged, otherwise, yes, he should die. Perhaps not in an outright confrontation, but in someway.
Better yet, authors could stop going "LULZ THREATEN LUKE SKYWALKER" and set themselves up for massive disappointment and instead focus on something other than galactic-level threats and war? Luke's arguably the most powerful Force user in the saga, but he's not omniscient, he's never demonstrated remarkable foresight (because, as I say, his control is shit and he's average intelligence at best). There can be threats and villains that he isn't aware of.
Pelleon's death was pretty stupid. They made it seem like he trapped all the moff's he wanted to kill on board with him, but apparently not, because their death's don't even slow the empire down. It seemed brilliant actually, until you realize that the Empire went ahead and joined Caedus anyway, because he absolutey HAD to have some allies at that time or would have been pretty much all over....
But the fact that the empire joined Caedus anyway made Pelleon's death pretty pointless...
Well while everyone is talking about Luke, I was ended up turning to Spike to watch a bit of A New Hope before I go out to dinner and right before it begins they do a little behind the scenes talking with Lucas and in the mini documentary he says that at one point in the ANH draft Luke was going to be a midget!
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
She made Luke tolerable imo. Her dark sense of humor and mannerisms went well with his naive point of view on things and his personality. It was just a nice balance is all.Now that she's dead Luke bores me.
I don't know what EU you've been reading, the naive fanboy in Luke died before Mara Jade hooked up with Luke. If you remember the hand of thrawn duology, Luke by that point was a master of the force and any naivety he used to have had been purged by his experiences.
Mara Jade was a good ally, a strong willed Jedi that could kick some ass, I just never felt she was Luke's best match, their union didn't progress as naturally as Luke's previous love interests and I didn't see as much of a connection as Luke had with women like Gaeriel Captison or Callista.
Originally posted by Allankles
I don't know what EU you've been reading, the naive fanboy in Luke died before Mara Jade hooked up with Luke. If you remember the hand of thrawn duology, Luke by that point was a master of the force and any naivety he used to have had been purged by his experiences.
Skywalker lost a lot of his naivety after his confrontation with his father in Return of the Jedi. The majority of what was left died after his experiences with the reborn Emperor on Byss. Still, Luke Skywalker remains a hopeless idealist, even as of LotF.
Mara Jade was a good ally, a strong willed Jedi that could kick some ass, I just never felt she was Luke's best match, their union didn't progress as naturally as Luke's previous love interests and I didn't see as much of a connection as Luke had with women like Gaeriel Captison or Callista.
Say what? Out of all of them, Mara was the most interesting by far. Callista cared more about her connection to the Force and subsequent loss of powers than Luke himself and ran off. That's pathetic and emo. Mara Jade? Antithesis and complementary to Luke in every aspect. Her backstory as the personal assassin of his greatest enemy and Imperial allegiance gives her a different view on just about everything. Her subsequent discovery that her master manipulated her left her damaged and, clearly, unwilling to trust others. It wasn't the cliched "love at first sight" but rather a bond that formed and deepened over years of companionship. That is interesting. Callista's "waa! I haff no Force bye Looke Im gonna go off and cry" routine isn't.
Originally posted by Gideon
Still, Luke Skywalker remains a hopeless idealist, even as of LotF.
Correct, and this is what I was referring to by naivety. Specifically, his belief that "anybody can be saved!", and his "noez that leads to the dark side!". He didn't really shake this off until much later. Coolest part of LotF is when Luke goes off.