Originally posted by Mindsethe made the claim that wolverine had changed. when challenged he cited examples, when those examples were challenged you came in commiting the burden of proof fallacy via a strawman.
I wasn't trying to pass the burden, without just cause, I thought you were making the statement, at first, that he could survive w/e.
Originally posted by Mindsetand neither of which are really new. As he's been doing similar things for along time.
Regrowing a heart isn't that big of a feat, I'd say the car bomb he was in recently is more impressive. Both of which are less impressive than being reduced to just bone.
Originally posted by Mindsetdoes the lower half count or does it have to be full skeleton?
Yes I am aware of what he handled in the past, which is why I said I know what he's capable of. He has healed from nothing but bone in the past w/o outside help?
Originally posted by MindsetAnd to think this started with kharmadog and Starscream M saying that Wolverine had been powered up based off of him doing things back in the 70s and 80s
For the record I do not believe Wolverine's personality, etc was altered, only that some of his feats were more impressive, which happens with basically every character.
Originally posted by MindsetWell there is that insane calculation and aim stunt he pulled where he hit and destroyed several quickly moving robotic enemies with a friggin ricochet shot.
Has Cyclops shown better reaction time than normal people?
Hitting one moving target is difficult, hitting two is even harder. but getting the aim just right so that I think it was five are all destroyed from a ricochet?
Originally posted by Creshosk
he made the claim that wolverine had changed. when challenged he cited examples, when those examples were challenged you came in commiting the burden of proof fallacy via a strawman.and neither of which are really new. As he's been doing similar things for along time.
does the lower half count or does it have to be full skeleton?
And to think this started with kharmadog and Starscream M saying that Wolverine had been powered up based off of him doing things back in the 70s and 80s
I wasn't saying regrowing a heart or surviving the damage sustained by a car bomb was new, those were examples of what he has healed from after the toning down of his healing factor.
Well the lower half doesn't contain any vital organs, it's pretty much just regrowing limbs, which isn't that spectacular.
I guess it serves me right trying to come to the aid of Starscream.
Originally posted by MindsetI'm pretty sure your liver and kidneys are pretty vital. by lower half I mean from the bottom of the ribs down.
I wasn't saying regrowing a heart or surviving the damage sustained by a car bomb was new, those were examples of what he has healed from after the toning down of his healing factor.Well the lower half doesn't contain any vital organs, it's pretty much just regrowing limbs, which isn't that spectacular.
I guess it serves me right trying to come to the aid of Starscream.
I'm pretty sure there's a number of vitals down there that are required to .. you know.. live.
Originally posted by Mindset
I was aware of those healing feats though, the blood one he had his powers amped, I believe, and I don't remember him being reduced to bone by the reactor.
He wasn't reduced to a skeleton by the reactor because his HF kept him from being so.
Originally posted by jinzin
His powers weren't amped in that feat though, his powers were constant the only variable was the amount of energy he used which was amped the principle behind the powers remained the same.He wasn't reduced to a skeleton by the reactor because his HF kept him from being so.
You know whats funny? Wolverine in that story "died" from being stabbed in the heart and grew a new body and all the X-Men left after they destroyed the crystal.... but Wolverine has survived much worse then that wound. I bet a few minutes later the original Wolverine woke up and was like "what the hell... where is everyone?" and he as been in the citadel ever since.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You know whats funny? Wolverine in that story "died" from being stabbed in the heart and grew a new body and all the X-Men left after they destroyed the crystal.... but Wolverine has survived much worse then that wound. I bet a few minutes later the original Wolverine woke up and was like "what the hell... where is everyone?" and he as been in the citadel ever since.
Yup, and he probably used some sort of plot device to make his way back to earth. Now he's all over the place, in multiple teams and guest appearances and no one's ever noticed.
Originally posted by jinzin
His powers weren't amped in that feat though, his powers were constant the only variable was the amount of energy he used which was amped the principle behind the powers remained the same.He wasn't reduced to a skeleton by the reactor because his HF kept him from being so.
Well the principle behind the power is to heal damage, that doesn't need to be changed, just augmented for it to be more effective, which was why he was able to heal from a drop of blood.
Originally posted by jinzinSo that's why Marvel and DC put him up against lobo.. he's got that blood clone power too, that explains how he can be aon ALL the teams at once.
Yup, and he probably used some sort of plot device to make his way back to earth. Now he's all over the place, in multiple teams and guest appearances and no one's ever noticed.
Originally posted by Mindset
Well the principle behind the power is to heal damage, that doesn't need to be changed, just augmented for it to be more effective, which was why he was able to heal from a drop of blood.
Heal from a drop of blood? That has to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Who was the writer?
Also, why doesn't every drop of blood that he bleeds grow into a new body? He could make an army of clones just by splattering his blood all over the place.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Well there is that insane calculation and aim stunt he pulled where he hit and destroyed several quickly moving robotic enemies with a friggin ricochet shot.Hitting one moving target is difficult, hitting two is even harder. but getting the aim just right so that I think it was five are all destroyed from a ricochet?
Here's another ricochet blast:
Tagging Northstar with a narrow beam, while he is speed blitzing storm. Shot him straight in the face too.
Originally posted by jinzin
🙄You don't have to be a "fanboy" nor feel "obligated" to think Creed has a shot at winning here.
The reason why I'm backing Creed here is because Cyclops has been limited in his battlefield effectiveness by a significant degree.
Wolverine and Creed have multiple feats between them that point out to them not only being able to dodge such beams but to take them and still come out on top or at the least a threat.
If the fight gets close up, Cyclops is practically done for, and the battlefield has been changed to a forest. Cyclops is severly hindered, Sabretooth's at home.
No obligation or fanboyism necessary to support Creed in this fight.
Good response. Not used to Wolvy fans having non-flame-inducing replies.
Respect. 😉
Originally posted by jinzin
Not really.
If all we had to go off of concerning who would win between the two the conclusions we would draw from In the Red Zone are definitely not pro-Cyclops material.
i think they are...
Sabretooth had a weaker healing factor by some noticeable amount (upgraded twice since), was a bit less durable and had been put through the wringer after running for 5 hours since his escape.Sabretooth was able to dodge Cyclops' blast with his back near turned to Scott while fighting Iceman and did it again to close ground drawing Cyk dead to rights.
yes, after scott had pulled off his glasses... he closes his eyes between blasts (otherwise he'd have gutted half the room), so aiming is pure guess work based on hearing and last visual memory... creed breaks in, and scott is able to get his glasses off fast and turn (creed came from behind), and get a shot off that grazes creed... the fact that scott was so close to hitting him the second time says more about scott's aim than creed's agility, imo...
Later Sabretooth had fought Beast to a knock out and got blasted by Cyclops with a standard beam, the effect was nothing more than a successful enraging of Creed.
it broke several ribs... and as you said, standard beam, which are generally as low as possible...
Then, Cyclops hits Sabretooth a bit later who just had his leg broken by Jeans TK, Sabretooth bounces right back pinning Cyclops to the ground.
cyclops didnt see him coming... he went to the window, as he thought creed was making a run for it... does it show creed fooled him? sure, but thats about all... this was after creed had pounced only to be thrown back through the window by cyclops...
Scott uses the distraction of a copter as well as Creeds momentary trash talk to hit him straight in the face. Creed once again brushes that off and engages Beast in combat once more.
its creed's fault for not trying to kill him, scott took time to trash talk too...
Finally after a fall from a high rise building, he takes one more shot, focused beam with the force of a bullet straight to the forehead... He STILL tries to squirm up before being shot with machine gun fire from surrounding police to which he survives for a few moments conscious still.... 😬
i don't get what conclusion you're coming to...
Scott never put Creed down in that comic save once at the very end of a very long and hard fought battle on Creeds behalf and even that was momentary. This combined with Creeds performance when focused on Scott doesn't say anything good about what Cyk could do in a battle with Sabes.. It CERTAINLY does not hurt the Sabretooth argument here.
from my side, it helps the scott argument as much as it could the creed one...
Originally posted by RaoulI thought we JUST discussed how Scott can see while firing his beam. 😬
yes, after scott had pulled off his glasses... he [b]closes his eyes between blasts (otherwise he'd have gutted half the room), so aiming is pure guess work based on hearing and last visual memory... creed breaks in, and scott is able to get his glasses off fast and turn (creed came from behind), and get a shot off that grazes creed... the fact that scott was so close to hitting him the second time says more about scott's aim than creed's agility, imo... [/B]
Originally posted by RaoulRibs are the easiest bones in the human body to break, coughing can result in broken ribs. That's all the damage the beam did to him which is really nothing to a guy like Sabretooth to begin with.
it broke several ribs... and as you said, standard beam, which are generally as low as possible...
Either way it's speculation. All we can say is that Cyclops blasted Creed and it did little to effect him.
Originally posted by RaoulWhich supports the Creed stealth argument as well as the Creed durability one. He took a shot and was still able to pounce on Cyclops pinning him. That's not a pro-Scott feat. And he "pounced" with a broken leg.
cyclops didnt see him coming... he went to the window, as he thought creed was making a run for it... does it show creed fooled him? sure, but thats about all... this was after creed had pounced only to be thrown back through the window by cyclops...
Originally posted by RaoulDidn't say it wan't, but it's still a negative feat for Scott.
its creed's fault for not trying to kill him, scott took time to trash talk too...
Originally posted by Raoul
i don't get what conclusion you're coming to...
Originally posted by RaoulI most definitely disagree.
from my side, it helps the scott argument as much as it could the creed one...
