Originally posted by jinzinYou mean that fancy blue armor that he was wearing? If it wasn't some other explanation, it was PIS due to jean ( who can lift tons failing to push him back) Cable (Who's gone toe to toe with the surfer) and Nate Grey (Cable without having to constantly keep a virus in check with his telekinesis).
Again the reference wasn't to skill, but to his stopping power.And WHAT? When/where was that EVER stated?
It wasn't.Cyclops also blasted him while he was hounding the X-Men and it knocked him through a loop, his ability to walk through Cyks blast was due to his knowledge of Cyk, not some magical armor that was never mentioned, or referenced. 😕
Wolverine pounded (not cut) his way through a door that was being reinforced by nate's telekenisis.
I'm sorry but the event was either plot device or plot stupidity.
Originally posted by Creshosk
So was everyone else, including Jean, CAble and Nate Grey. I suspect he had celestial tech that absorbed these attacks. Yes, Jubilees destroyed it by attacking his armor with her mild matter manip attack of detonating the matter it was made of. But him wading through Jean, cable and Nate's attacks makes me suspect there was something else involved such as celestial tech
Originally posted by CreshoskI'm not sure I folow that little DBZ rant. 😕
Sabertooth isn't a DBZ character that can go for extended periods of time faster than the eye can see, he may be able to move in bursts, but when Cyclops's attack is literally, "I look at you and you're tagged," I doubt that such an occurrence is feasible.
Originally posted by Creshosk
You mean that fancy blue armor that he was wearing? If it wasn't some other explanation, it was PIS due to jean ( who can lift tons failing to push him back) Cable (Who's gone toe to toe with the surfer) and Nate Grey (Cable without having to constantly keep a virus in check with his telekinesis).Wolverine pounded (not cut) his way through a door that was being reinforced by nate's telekenisis.
I'm sorry but the event was either plot device or plot stupidity.
Jean's also had trouble holding Sabretooth or bone claw Wolverine, part of that has to do with willpower.
Cable nor Nate ever attacked Logan. Well Cable did but both occurances were h2h contests.
Originally posted by jinzin
In the Classic X-Men example Wolverine says something along the lines of "their hitting me with everything they got".
cos wolverines knowledge of cyclops' powers > cyclops' right? 😛
In the Brood example, Cyclops had no visor his eyes were enlarged (brood size) and he had no control over the blast, he necessarily couldn't have been holding back.
Cyclops was hitting him with everything he had during the death scenario.I wasn't making that reference vs. skill but sheer stopping power. 😬
there's the problem that cyclops' powers have been consistently redefined by writers... a full power blast in the 60s was barely enough to puncture steel, now he's levelling forests and knocking down guys that can physicaly hang with colossus without even going full on...
i really dont think you can say it was full power when its been altered a fair bit...
a full power brood blast isnt nearly equal to his current power level, imo...
In terms of skill, Cyclops already failed against Sabretooth. 😐
one showing? 😬
Originally posted by Creshosk
Jinzin Pick:
Plot device or Plot stupidity.Those are the options.
With the exception of spy-blockers he had nothing to help him with the blast more than any other time. Hell, Cyck even blasted him later to an effect. He had no absorbing armor that was never before, during, or since referenced.
Originally posted by jinzin
He didn't wade through Nate's attacks. 😕
Or Cables... Cable tried to fight him in hand to hand, he lost one, and he won one.
Jean, I think psy-blockers were referenced. But other than that?
Cyclops was effective on him in one instance and not another.I'm not sure I folow that little DBZ rant. 😕
Cyclops already proved that he has trouble even registering the movements of a Prime Sentinal that Logan had absolutely no trouble dealing with in h2h.
Logan's already dodged Cyclops' focused beams at point blank when he was aware.
Sabretooth did it too.
Both characters closed ground on Cyk while avoiding the blast long enough to draw an advantagous position. 😬
Cyclops tags you by looking at you.
Avoiding being tagged means you avoided him seeing you.
Avoiding him seeing you means you moved faster than his eyes could lock on you, rather than even his brain being able to process you moved.
To truly dodge cyclops you have to constantly keep him from seeing you.
Default specifications means that they start .5 km apart. in a flat neutral like setting.
Being able to keep him from seeing you while you travel .5km with no cover is a DBZ-esque feat.
DBZ-esque level feats are impossible for Wolverine or Sabertooth.
Yes, they can move faster than the eye can see, for short periods of time. They are not speedsters, beyond bursts of invisible to the eye movement. They are not, not being seen, by cyclops while covering the distance between them.
Originally posted by Raoul
cos wolverines knowledge of cyclops' powers > cyclops' right? 😛
Originally posted by RaoulWouldn't that just fall into the collateral damage argument that coincides with brick punches?
there's the problem that cyclops' powers have been consistently redefined by writers... a full power blast in the 60s was barely enough to puncture steel, now he's levelling forests and knocking down guys that can physicaly hang with colossus without even going full on...
Originally posted by Raoul
i really dont think you can say it was full power when its been altered a fair bit...a full power brood blast isnt nearly equal to his current power level, imo...
Originally posted by RaoulTwice actually.
one showing? 😬
Originally posted by CreshoskCyke could tag by looking...but Creed is not someone who is gonna be taken down by one blast, or many
Cyclops tags you by looking at you.
Avoiding being tagged means you avoided him seeing you.
Avoiding him seeing you means you moved faster than his eyes could lock on you, rather than even his brain being able to process you moved.
To truly dodge cyclops you have to constantly keep him from seeing you.
and once Cyke unleashes a blast, he's blind for the moment....so Creed gets hit and then continues on towards Cyke
Originally posted by jinzinWriters giving faulty explination makes for plot induced stupidity. a "weak point" in a light like projection is only made by something blocking it. given the wave like functions of light there would be no "weak point" other than that of right between cyclops's eyes before the beams unite.
Oh please, I'm not going to fall into such a false dychotomy. Wolverine's done without the armor what he's done with it. He's even made reference to a weak point in Cyk's beam that he can avoid a percentage of damage while inside.
More writer garbage not understanding science. I'll accept that as much as I accept storm flying on solar winds: I don't.
Originally posted by jinzinPsy blockers block telepathy. Not telekenisis.
With the exception of spy-blockers he had nothing to help him with the blast more than any other time. Hell, Cyck even blasted him later to an effect. He had no absorbing armor that was never before, during, or since referenced.
and I call bullshit on the feat then,. Congratulations, that's a case of plot induced stupidity. its right up there with Spiderman dancing circles around the X-men and Spiderman's webbing holding nightcrawler.
It has nothing to do with likeing the feat. because I like the events that happened. Jubilee got to help save the day. It has everything to do with feesability.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Writers giving faulty explination makes for plot induced stupidity. a "weak point" in a light like projection is only made by something blocking it. given the wave like functions of light there would be no "weak point" other than that of right between cyclops's eyes before the beams unite.More writer garbage not understanding science. I'll accept that as much as I accept storm flying on solar winds: I don't.
While I'm not defending jinzin's stance... Cyclop's blasts are "non-Einsteinian particles" in beam form that come from another universe.
Originally posted by CreshoskYou're talking about a guy who's faster than someone who's had multiple displays of being faster than the eye could follow, they move nearly faster than Psylocke could grasp in her mind's eye. It's not implausible for Sabretooth to do this.
Cyclops tags you by looking at you.
Avoiding being tagged means you avoided him seeing you.
Avoiding him seeing you means you moved faster than his eyes could lock on you, rather than even his brain being able to process you moved.
To truly dodge cyclops you have to constantly keep him from seeing you.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Default specifications means that they start .5 km apart. in a flat neutral like setting.
Originally posted by Creshoskdistance still gives an opening to dodge. As Wolverine as done just that from a distance with his back to Cyk.. twice. 😬
Being able to keep him from seeing you while you travel .5km with no cover is a DBZ-esque feat.DBZ-esque level feats are impossible for Wolverine or Sabertooth.
Yes, they can move faster than the eye can see, for short periods of time. They are not speedsters, beyond bursts of invisible to the eye movement. They are not, not being seen, by cyclops while covering the distance between them.
I will admit though given default distance Creeds chances for success are a lot more limited than what I originally thought.
Originally posted by jinzin
😕
That... doesn't even make sense. Cyclops was commanded to blast Wolverine, he did, Wolverine made a reference that he was being hit with everything scott had and stood up to it.
how does wolverine know scott's limits if even scott doesnt?
Wouldn't that just fall into the collateral damage argument that coincides with brick punches?
i don't see how, to be honest...
So he's definitely gotten stronger and it isn't just a plea to the non collateral damage argument?
of course, 'full power' was just something cool writers used to go on about... he's a damn sight more powerful now than he was in years gone by, even in astonishing alone, he has some really impressive feats...
Twice actually.
which is the other one?
Originally posted by Starscream M
😕 cyke is blind while he shoots his rays
that would make him blind all the time...