Originally posted by janus77
so he loses because they're superior?😕
Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Oh, so the X-Men just must be Low Herald + level to beat him than??? or they are overrated?
They have never straight up defeated him. In fact, a severely weakened, dying Apocalypse defeated the X-Men during the X-Cutioner's Song...
However, there are two times they overcame Apoc; X-Factor #68 when Cyclops, somehow empowered through his son Nathan and Jean, released an unusually large optic blast that took down Apoc.... yeah I know, it makes no sense. Not much did in that story....
And in that 2006 BoA arc, the X-Men used a Leech-like mutant to depower Apoc in order to defeat him...
Originally posted by janus77
Apocalypse v Thor would definitely be an interesting battle to read ... have they ever crossed paths?
Not directly...
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Apoc doesn't job to them. 😕
Thor's a legit planet-buster. Apoc isn't. And he can absorb more damage, definitely more energy and likely more raw physical force as well. Simple as that. Posting a scan where they talk about Apoc's future with Thor standing around doesn't tell us anything.
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
And in that 2006 BoA arc, the X-Men used a Leech-like mutant to depower Apoc in order to defeat him...
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Leech could only hold for few seconds (Apocalypse has just too much power for Leech to handle and Apocalypse wasn't even prepared for that attack). If Apocalypse would want, then he would defeat them all. He even one shoted them all with his blast (which didn't seem close to his full power).
Apocalypse pretty much himself went to death, to avoid Celestials, but hasn't succeeded.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thor's a legit planet-buster. Apoc isn't. And he can absorb more damage, definitely more energy and likely more raw physical force as well. Simple as that. Posting a scan where they talk about Apoc's future with Thor standing around doesn't tell us anything.
It tells that originally Apocalypse conquered Earth and pretty much erased Avengers.
Originally posted by Xplosive
It tells that originally Apocalypse conquered Earth and pretty much erased Avengers.
Which he clearly did with prep and resources, not by solo'ing Marvel Earth. So again, what does that scan tell us that's even remotely close to being pertinent to this match? It's honestly reaching to the point of showing a blatant fan-crush, because the scan is clearly meaningless.
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
It was said several times in comics that Apoc was more powerful than his Doomsday-like minion, the Harbinger, whom the Avenger couldn't beat.
Still ABC logic, which doesn't hold up. Apoc's feats << Thor's. End of story. The fact that this is what is being resorted to is as much proof of that as we need.
I don't think you can dismiss "ABC logic" so easily, it's probably the least contradictory and most widely applicable form of logic there is for comics.
if you go by "feats", then surely the typical Celestial < Strange, Odin > Galactus (when did the FF ever defeat Odin?) ...
some characters don't get the time in the limelight, they are just presented as being "the big bad", to devalue their intended (the implicit, and occasionally explicit, references to their comparative status with respect to established characters) place in the hierarchy makes it virtually impossible to utilise these characters in the Vs forum at all.
Originally posted by janus77
I don't think you can dismiss "ABC logic" so easily, it's probably the least contradictory and most widely applicable form of logic there is for comics.if you go by "feats", then surely the typical Celestial < Strange, Odin > Galactus (when did the FF ever defeat Odin?) ...
some characters don't get the time in the limelight, they are just presented as being "the big bad", to devalue their intended (the implicit, and occasionally explicit, references to their comparative status with respect to established characters) place in the hierarchy makes it virtually impossible to utilise these characters in the Vs forum at all.
Celestial < Strange based off of feats?! It doesn't matter you have limited feats. If the few that you DO have are insane feats, then that's your power level until otherwise established. I can think of a couple Celestial feats that easily put them beyond Strange, and it only takes 2-3 before it can be considered a reliable trend.
FF's a horrible example. It was the nullifier, not the FF. Nullifier > Big G. Not FF and therefore Odin. Actually, using ABC logic is the only way to get such a conclusion. FF beat Galactus. Er, who's beaten the FF? Nihilus maybe. Thus, Nihilus > G???
ABC logic is among the least credible methods of debate, imo. We can ABC ourselves to Batman > Galactus in probably 4-5 moves, for example. It can be used occasionally and be a valid way of discussing it, but feats are a far more valid way of deciding.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Leech could only hold for few seconds (Apocalypse has just too much power for Leech to handle and Apocalypse wasn't even prepared for that attack). If Apocalypse would want, then he would defeat them all. He even one shoted them all with his blast (which didn't seem close to his full power).
Apocalypse pretty much himself went to death, to avoid Celestials, but hasn't succeeded.It tells that originally Apocalypse conquered Earth and pretty much erased Avengers.
First off, it wasn't Leech, it was a Leech-like character, like Bad Ash said. Apocalypse DOES want to defeat them all, he's just an idiot. If you want to use the crappy "one shotted them all with his blast" put up a scan. If it's from that shitty X-Factor on the moon, I'll show a scan with Cyclops one-shotting him. That issue was like Bad Ash said, quite crap.
He ran from the X-men. He was scared of the X-men, not celestials. He remembered about the celestials as he was dying.
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
It was said several times in comics that Apoc was more powerful than his Doomsday-like minion, the Harbinger, whom the Avenger couldn't beat.
So? He also seemed scared of Gambit's "turn the air in your lungs to gas like you taught me to" technique when he was Death... 😬
They're not his creations to say he's more powerful, his horsemen are creations of the celestial tech. His only contribution is putting them in the machines and letting the machines do their job. Stop making it sound like he's Galactus 😬
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
So? He also seemed scared of Gambit's "turn the air in your lungs to gas like you taught me to" technique when he was Death... 😬They're not his creations to say he's more powerful, his horsemen are creations of the celestial tech. His only contribution is putting them in the machines and letting the machines do their job. Stop making it sound like he's Galactus 😬
Laughing my ass off.
Evil Ash called him Mid-herald and has never wanted him any higher than that. Now he makes it sound as if he's equal to Galactus?
There are other examples though. Moses Magnum being afraid of Apocalypse.
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Apocalypse DOES want to defeat them all, he's just an idiot.
Elaborate.
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
He ran from the X-men. He was scared of the X-men, not celestials.
I don't remember where it said that Apoc was scared of the X-Men....
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
So? He also seemed scared of Gambit's "turn the air in your lungs to gas like you taught me to" technique when he was Death... 😬
He seemed more impressed by Gambit, and did warn him not babble about love anymore.
It's not like Gambit actually could attack him...
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
They're not his creations to say he's more powerful
Sinister disagrees.
Speaking of servants, Exodus couldn't do anything to Apoc and Sinister has stated that Apoc would kill him.
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
His only contribution is putting them in the machines and letting the machines do their job.
And who controls the machines that transforms his subjects? Apoc.