Thor Vs. Apocalypse

Originally posted by llagrok
Laughing my ass off.

Evil Ash called him Mid-herald and has never wanted him any higher than that. Now he makes it sound as if he's equal to Galactus?

There are other examples though. Moses Magnum being afraid of Apocalypse.

🤨 You completely misunderstood my post.

I didn't say he made it sound like he's equal to Galactus by directly saying it, but by saying that one of "his creations" gave the Avengers problems, it would mean he would also be very powerful since that's "his creation". Except it's not. As opposed to Galactus who also has minions for instance, in which case this sort of logic actually works (saying SS is very powerful ergo imagine how powerful his maker is), with Apocalypse it doesn't. Since he doesn't invest his own powers into a human, turning them into incredibly powerful beings. He takes powerful beings and using technology that isn't his own, let's the machines handle them and upgrade them.

That's why I said he should not be compared with Galactus.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
🤨 You completely misunderstood my post.

I didn't say he made it sound like he's equal to Galactus by directly saying it, but by saying that one of "his creations" gave the Avengers problems, it would mean he would also be very powerful since that's "his creation". Except it's not. As opposed to Galactus who also has minions for instance, in which case this sort of logic actually works (saying SS is very powerful ergo imagine how powerful his maker is), with Apocalypse it doesn't. Since he doesn't invest his own powers into a human, turning them into incredibly powerful beings. He takes powerful beings and using technology that isn't his own, let's the machines handle them and upgrade them.

That's why I said he should not be compared with Galactus.

Evil Ash wasn't basing the argument off Apocalypse investing his own power in them, but in the fact that most feared him and he actually controlled them. If Moses Magnum or the Harbinger were so much stronger than him, why did they do his bidding? Why was Moses scared shitless?

Apocalypse's creations have given the Avengers plenty trouble though, that's not a way of interpreting the events, it actually happened.

And Apocalypse being afraid of the X-men? Please. He even welcomed death, just like he did after Stryfe almost killed him. Apocalypse does NOT fear death, that's been proven twice already.

technically they aren't "Apocalypse's creations", but rather modifications/augmentations using technology from The Celestials.

basically he's just a glorified assembler of parts.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Elaborate.

Do you want me to look for a scan with him SAYING he wants the X-men beaten or what? 😬

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
I don't remember where it said that Apoc was scared of the X-Men....

My bad, he obviously was going to ESCAPE from the nagging feeling he left something in the oven, definitely not running away from the X-men 😂 . Do you NEED a little editor's note saying "While the X-men watch baffled, Apocalypse tries to escape their clutches" ??? Are you in the 60's?

Seriously, your vain attempts at defending him are nothing other than reaching and grasping. 🙁

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
He seemed more impressed by Gambit, and did warn him not babble about love anymore.

It's not like Gambit actually could attack him...

Oh really? Cause ya know...

Given that he was just betrayed by Ozymandias and another horseman, I'd say the only reason he didn't take Gambit out at the first sign of doubt was that he was scared of his abilities. See what I did right there? It's called logic 😱

Oh, also, the art makes him seem somewhat scared, to me at least. Nice out of context two panels you showed however. Classy.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Sinister disagrees.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/CableAnnual1999-02.jpg http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll198/evilash1990/CableAnnual1999-03.jpg

Speaking of servants, Exodus couldn't do anything to Apoc and Sinister has stated that Apoc would kill him.

What the hell are you talking about? I didn't say his creations could kill him, I said THEY'RE NOT HIS CREATIONS ergo he is not logically more powerful than them. They are independent persons/things enhanced by celestial machinery. Not by him. Therefore, the fact that he created them has no impact on trying to grasp his power level.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
And who controls the machines that transforms his subjects? Apoc.

Oh, ok, so the dude who controls the computer can perform the same tasks as the computer huh? Nice logic there 😂

Originally posted by janus77
technically they aren't "Apocalypse's creations", but rather modifications/augmentations using technology from The Celestials.

basically he's just a glorified assembler of parts.

Ha, finally someone gets what I've been saying, thank you! 🙂

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Ha, finally someone gets what I've been saying, thank you! 🙂

What does that matter?

He's not using the fact that Apocalypse operated the machines as a feat, but the fact that he was more powerful than his minions....

the logic of the argument is that Apocalypse is more powerful than 'X' because he created 'X', but when it's proven that he did not actually create 'X' it undermines the assertion that he is more powerful than 'X'.

That's not the logic Evil Ash was trying to use....

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Do you want me to look for a scan with him SAYING he wants the X-men beaten or what? 😬

Yes.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
My bad, he obviously was going to ESCAPE from the nagging feeling he left something in the oven, definitely not running away from the X-men 😂 . Do you NEED a little editor's note saying "While the X-men watch baffled, Apocalypse tries to escape their clutches" ??? Are you in the 60's?

Seriously, your vain attempts at defending him are nothing other than reaching and grasping. 🙁

Where is it said that Apoc is scared of the X-Men? It doesn't 🙂

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Oh really? Cause ya know...

Given that he was just betrayed by Ozymandias and another horseman, I'd say the only reason he didn't take Gambit out at the first sign of doubt was that he was scared of his abilities.

Scared? Is that why he is saying in the page, you posted, that he would "put his powers to test" if he kept talking about love? I doubt Gambit's gas could kill Apoc, considering his powerful adaptive powers...

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Nice out of context two panels you showed however. Classy.

Out of context?

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
I didn't say his creations could kill him

My point is that Apoc's minions have not shown to be as powerful as him.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Oh, ok, so the dude who controls the computer can perform the same tasks as the computer huh? Nice logic there 😂

pr1983

It's Apocalypse who control the Celestial technology and what it should do through control panels, and usually by simply interfacing with it....

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
First off, it wasn't Leech, it was a Leech-like character, like Bad Ash said. If you want to use the crappy "one shotted them all with his blast" put up a scan. If it's from that shitty X-Factor on the moon, I'll show a scan with Cyclops one-shotting him. That issue was like Bad Ash said, quite crap.

Am, that was Cyclops with full power of Nate, Jean and himself, not him alone. That blast seemed far more powerful than BB+Inhuman combined.

Apocalypse DOES want to defeat them all, he's just an idiot.

He defeated them under 60 seconds when was was very weak.
And do you remember that he actually didn't want to kill them?

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
He ran from the X-men. He was scared of the X-men, not celestials. He remembered about the celestials as he was dying.

He didn't run from X-Men, but literally, from Celestials and their punishment to him. He wanted to avoid them by dying, but they didn't let him. And by his monologue in the end, you could clearly see he was running from Celestials.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
So? He also seemed scared of Gambit's "turn the air in your lungs to gas like you taught me to" technique when he was Death... 😬

No, he made Gambit think he could kill him. You could see in the end when he was just walking into that Gambit gas and it was nothing to him.

Magnum was very powerful but less powerful than Apocalypse.
He was also afraid of him.

Sinister said he wouldn't survive a battle against Apocalypse.
Exodus, very powerful, couldn't do anything to him.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
I didn't say he made it sound like he's equal to Galactus by directly saying it, but by saying that one of "his creations" gave the Avengers problems, it would mean he would also be very powerful since that's "his creation".

It's not, but Apocalypse was still clearly more powerful than Moses, therefor Moses being very afraid of him.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

FF's a horrible example. It was the nullifier, not the FF. Nullifier > Big G. Not FF and therefore Odin. Actually, using ABC logic is the only way to get such a conclusion. FF beat Galactus. Er, who's beaten the FF? Nihilus maybe. Thus, Nihilus > G???

ABC logic is among the least credible methods of debate, imo. We can ABC ourselves to Batman > Galactus in probably 4-5 moves, for example. It can be used occasionally and be a valid way of discussing it, but feats are a far more valid way of deciding.

also, BP> the surfer, but thats another debate