who can take out trion juggernaut

Started by ultimatethor13 pages

Originally posted by carver9
How is superman prime feat comparable when he had something physically to punch whereas trion punched through thin air.

I agree with this statement but it is a strength feat that I have yet to see repeated. The hulk example and the prime example are totally different. Trion feat was much harder.

The hulk examle while not equivalent to it is comparable. The hulk did not have something to physically punch either. Also WWH at the end of the arc devstated the eastern sea bord with a casual step. Imagine what a full on punch would have done( Not to say he can beat trion but that the feat is also comparable).

Originally posted by ultimatethor
The hulk examle while not equivalent to it is comparable. The hulk did not have something to physically punch either. Also WWH at the end of the arc devstated the eastern sea bord with a casual step. Imagine what a full on punch would have done( Not to say he can beat trion but that the feat is also comparable).

I agree, the hulk during the end of wwh was very strong, I agree also that he might could have replicated that feat. If anyone was to give trion a fight it could be him. Hell that hulk was stronger then mindless hulk that fought onslaught and from writers own mouth onslaught was just as powerful as a celestial. I kinda agree with that statement since thor has dented celestials and actually caught there attention but thor wasnt even a nuicance to onslaught.

seriously, when guys like Galactus fight, they destroy galaxies, they shake/destroy dimensions (universes) as a side-effect.

Trion shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as a Celestial (the average Celestial being somewhat inferior to Galactus).

even Odin's fights have resulted in 'dead galaxies' being rocked.

busting through a dimension is basically a very small scale version of that same thing.

Onslaught being the equal of a Celestial is hyperbole. as far as the evidence goes (based upon feats), his biggest claim is absorbing Franklin... though that is a high end feat, it's still not enough to say that he [Onslaught] is capable of hanging with Celestials.

Mindless Hulk was stronger than Onslaught, I doubt Mindless Hulk would last more than a few punches against any Celestial.

anyway, back to Trion. I still don't see him as being anything more than SkyFather level, he doesn't have the feats to put him up there, beyond that.

Hulk's punching of the Nexus of realities, his smashing of the Time Storm etc are all feats of similar stature (though the nexus one should be more, given how far it extended into other realms).

Hulk's definitely powerful enough to hang with Trion. I suspect he'd eventually win a purely physical confrontation, just like he did against Onslaught as he can just keep getting more and more powerful.

Did it ever occur to people that being magic allowed Juggernaut to punch his way into another dimension? You know, like that bladed weapon that lets the user cut portals in thin air in that one fiction thing.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Did it ever occur to people that being magic allowed Juggernaut to punch his way into another dimension? You know, like that bladed weapon that lets the user cut portals in thin air in that one fiction thing.

I did suggest that, earlier. seems a reasonable answer.

Originally posted by carver9
I guess you never read the comic, it said that his strength was so immense that he was able to punch through dimension. There was no other way that he did it, he did it by pure physical force. Now imagine this, imagine him fighting a speedster then he decides to do a thunderclap, I wonder what a thunder clap would be fr0m a character that could PUNCH through dimensions.

Also, the answer to your question about juggernaut durability is that the only time he has been defeated has been mentally.

No it didn't. Do you think I'm stupid? It was through mystical power that he was punching through dimensions, nothing more. Something Dr. Strange can do.

But as far as his durability is concerned I agree with the exceptions of the pissy Onslaught and Nightcrawler incidents.

HUH, where to begin.

]seriously, when guys like Galactus fight, they destroy galaxies, they shake/destroy dimensions (universes) as a side-effect.

True statement but guess what, galactus was hurt from a exploding planet, I wonder what trion punches would do.

Trion shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as a Celestial (the average Celestial being somewhat inferior to Galactus).

You might think this but Cytorrak and galactus are equals, this was said on panel, dont hate something that writers published.

even Odin's fights have resulted in 'dead galaxies' being rocked.

I agree with this post, odin is quite powerful but trion would still wreck him.

busting through a dimension is basically a very small scale version of that same thing.

Show me galactus using pure strength to bust through a dimension then maybe I'll agree.

Onslaught being the equal of a Celestial is hyperbole. as far as the evidence goes (based upon feats), his biggest claim is absorbing Franklin... though that is a high end feat, it's still not enough to say that he [Onslaught] is capable of hanging with Celestials.

So you dont think that by onslaught testing his new powers creating a sun is a celestial feat. Tell me a sky father that could destroy some of the greatest heros by himself like onslaught did. The only person that mimiced that feat was thanos with the ig. And again thor damaged a celestial more then once but he was nothing but a flee to onslaught. Thor has made galactus scream but against a incomplete onslaught, thor was nothing but a flee.

Mindless Hulk was stronger than Onslaught, I doubt Mindless Hulk would last more than a few punches against any Celestial.

Where are you getting hulk being stronger then onslaught, you must forgot that onslaught LET hulk defeat him. By the way, beings like the beyonder question the hulks strength. Hulk has been stated as having the strength of a celestial. If onslaught didnt LET hulk rip his armor it still wouldnt have been a low showing. Hulk by far is one of the strongest character in both marvel and dc.

anyway, back to Trion. I still don't see him as being anything more than SkyFather level, he doesn't have the feats to put him up there, beyond that.

He dont need the feats, his first punch was feat enough, then you add on the fact all of classic juggernaut abilities was amped to unbelievable levels. Classic juggernaut was already basically indestructible and had near unlimited strength. Classic juggernaut treated thor like a chump, walked through the xmen attacks, walked through the xforce, and xfactor attacks, never got damaged fighting the hulk and walked through everything that the exemplers dished out to him. Its no telling where trion power levels was at. Skyfathers attacks would be worthless against him unless theyre trying to bfr him.

Hulk's punching of the Nexus of realities, his smashing of the Time Storm etc are all feats of similar stature (though the nexus one should be more, given how far it extended into other realms).

and it still dont compare to trion feat. During the time that he was punching through the stream, trion had beings above skyfather fearing his presence.

Hulk's definitely powerful enough to hang with Trion. I suspect he'd eventually win a purely physical confrontation, just like he did against Onslaught as he can just keep getting more and more powerful.

The only hulk that I think would get trions attention is the hulk that footstep almost destroyed the planet. Any other hulk would get destroyed and quite easily. Hell trion wouldnt even waste his time with hulk.

Originally posted by h1a8
No it didn't. Do you think I'm stupid? It was through mystical power that he was punching through dimensions, nothing more. Something Dr. Strange can do.

But as far as his durability is concerned I agree with the exceptions of the pissy Onslaught and Nightcrawler incidents.

From the scan it say that he was smashing his way through dimensions. What does the word smashing mean to you.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/trion_juggs1.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
From the scan it say that he was smashing his way through dimensions. What does the word smashing mean to you.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/trion_juggs1.jpg

Power isn't strength. Dr. Strange has power to punch thru dimensions.
Yes Jugg's was using strength but he was using mystical energies to causate with the dimensions, otherwise it makes no sense for him to punch through dimensions with sub light speeds and pure physical means.

Originally posted by h1a8
Power isn't strength. Dr. Strange has power to punch thru dimensions.
Yes Jugg's was using strength but he was using mystical energies to causate with the dimensions, otherwise it makes no sense for him to punch through dimensions with sub light speeds and pure physical means.

Comics never make sense or it wouldnt be comics. Now could you please be as kind to show me where youre getting something else interferring besides strength.

Originally posted by janus77

I suspect he'd eventually win a purely physical confrontation, just like he did against Onslaught as he can just keep getting more and more powerful.

you act as if hulk won on his own.onslaught let him win.

Originally posted by Nestical
you act as if hulk won on his own.onslaught let him win.

Thats what I was trying to tell him for the longest.

Originally posted by carver9
HUH, where to begin.

True statement but guess what, galactus was hurt from a exploding planet, I wonder what trion punches would do.

You might think this but Cytorrak and galactus are equals, this was said on panel, dont hate something that writers published.

I agree with this post, odin is quite powerful but trion would still wreck him.

Show me galactus using pure strength to bust through a dimension then maybe I'll agree.

So you dont think that by onslaught testing his new powers creating a sun is a celestial feat. Tell me a sky father that could destroy some of the greatest heros by himself like onslaught did. The only person that mimiced that feat was thanos with the ig. And again thor damaged a celestial more then once but he was nothing but a flee to onslaught. Thor has made galactus scream but against a incomplete onslaught, thor was nothing but a flee.

Where are you getting hulk being stronger then onslaught, you must forgot that onslaught LET hulk defeat him. By the way, beings like the beyonder question the hulks strength. Hulk has been stated as having the strength of a celestial. If onslaught didnt LET hulk rip his armor it still wouldnt have been a low showing. Hulk by far is one of the strongest character in both marvel and dc.

He dont need the feats, his first punch was feat enough, then you add on the fact all of classic juggernaut abilities was amped to unbelievable levels. Classic juggernaut was already basically indestructible and had near unlimited strength. Classic juggernaut treated thor like a chump, walked through the xmen attacks, walked through the xforce, and xfactor attacks, never got damaged fighting the hulk and walked through everything that the exemplers dished out to him. Its no telling where trion power levels was at. Skyfathers attacks would be worthless against him unless theyre trying to bfr him.

and it still dont compare to trion feat. During the time that he was punching through the stream, trion had beings above skyfather fearing his presence.

The only hulk that I think would get trions attention is the hulk that footstep almost destroyed the planet. Any other hulk would get destroyed and quite easily. Hell trion wouldnt even waste his time with hulk.

Okay ill try not to make this too long.

First of all please DO NOT bring the Big G into this because those arguments are totally moot. I have mentioned numerous galactus durability feats that negate any low showings you may have of him. Normally those low showings happened when galactus was weakened and hungry so i have no idea why you continue to bring them up. You say galactus was hurt by an exploding planet? I say that the same Galactus survived and exploding Star system without much trouble. You see the difference between weakend Galactus and a standard one? It should be very clear.

Also do you have a scan of the statement where Galactus and trion are equals because if we were to go by statements Eternity said a fully powered galactus was his equal. And last time i checked Eternity>>Cyttorak.( PErsonally id rather NOT use this logic)

Also there is absolutely NO basis for saying trion would wreck Odin especially when trion has absolutely NO feats comparable to Odins numerous amount. Punching through a dimension is NOT enough considering that people like hulk have done similar feats.( Note not superior but similar, evn though the nexus feat can be argued as being superior)

Also onslaught creating a sun is NOT a celestial or galactus level feat. Guys like Galactus have telported entire galaxies with mere thoughts and destroyed multiple solar sytems and galxies. Far beyond anything onslaught did in that comic. Now dont get me wrong onsluaght is powerful maybe evn ceelstial level but the feat you mentioned does prove it. And as for the question of a skyfather destroying heroes, almost any skyfather can do it. Odin one shotted silver surfer who is probably the most durable marvel top tier. It would be far easier to take aout any other earth top tier. Thanos could not hurt Odin considerably and he i far above all the heroes that fought onsluaght. Odin would have easily disposed of the heroes that fought onslaught let alone Galctus.

Further to ur next point, Onslaught did not let hulk win. No where was this stated and it would be a big stretch to even imply it. All onslaught did was take advantage of the situation in which hulk broke his armor. He used hulk to achieve his goal but that does not mean he somehow weakened his armor to allow hulk break it. Unless u can show me some proof of this then it is moot.

Classic jugs durability feats are nothing compared to what some skyfathers have accomplished like taking galaxy busting attacks. Trion juggernauty while better has NOt done anything at all to show he is anywhere above skyfather let alone Galactus or celestial level and that is a fact that has yet to be proven otherwise.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Okay ill try not to make this too long.

First of all please DO NOT bring the Big G into this because those arguments are totally moot. I have mentioned numerous galactus durability feats that negate any low showings you may have of him. Normally those low showings happened when galactus was weakened and hungry so i have no idea why you continue to bring them up. You say galactus was hurt by an exploding planet? I say that the same Galactus survived and exploding Star system without much trouble. You see the difference between weakend Galactus and a standard one? It should be very clear.

Also do you have a scan of the statement where Galactus and trion are equals because if we were to go by statements Eternity said a fully powered galactus was his equal. And last time i checked Eternity>>Cyttorak.( PErsonally id rather NOT use this logic)

Also there is absolutely NO basis for saying trion would wreck Odin especially when trion has absolutely NO feats comparable to Odins numerous amount. Punching through a dimension is NOT enough considering that people like hulk have done similar feats.( Note not superior but similar, evn though the nexus feat can be argued as being superior)

Also onslaught creating a sun is NOT a celestial or galactus level feat. Guys like Galactus have telported entire galaxies with mere thoughts and destroyed multiple solar sytems and galxies. Far beyond anything onslaught did in that comic. Now dont get me wrong onsluaght is powerful maybe evn ceelstial level but the feat you mentioned does prove it. And as for the question of a skyfather destroying heroes, almost any skyfather can do it. Odin one shotted silver surfer who is probably the most durable marvel top tier. It would be far easier to take aout any other earth top tier. Thanos could not hurt Odin considerably and he i far above all the heroes that fought onsluaght. Odin would have easily disposed of the heroes that fought onslaught let alone Galctus.

Further to ur next point, Onslaught did not let hulk win. No where was this stated and it would be a big stretch to even imply it. All onslaught did was take advantage of the situation in which hulk broke his armor. He used hulk to achieve his goal but that does not mean he somehow weakened his armor to allow hulk break it. Unless u can show me some proof of this then it is moot.

Classic jugs durability feats are nothing compared to what some skyfathers have accomplished like taking galaxy busting attacks. Trion juggernauty while better has NOt done anything at all to show he is anywhere above skyfather let alone Galactus or celestial level and that is a fact that has yet to be proven otherwise.

Good post, cant argue with that.

Nice job.

edit

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Onslaught did not let hulk win.

He used hulk to achieve his goal

Think about that.

Onslaught wanted hulk to win to acheive his goal.. but obviously he was trying his hardest to keep hulk from winning, thus he was trying to thwart his own goal.

Yeah that makes sense. 🙄

Originally posted by Creshosk
Think about that.

Onslaught wanted hulk to win to acheive his goal.. but obviously he was trying his hardest to keep hulk from winning, thus he was trying to thwart his own goal.

Yeah that makes sense. 🙄

😆

Good point.

creshosk misquotes (removes a key line of text) ultimatethor there but, even so, there is one undeniable truth to be drawn from Onslaught "wanting" Hulk to destroy Onslaught's armour.

that is, Onslaught could not destroy his own armour, he wasn't strong enough, only Hulk could.

whatever way you want to slice it, Onslaught < Mindless Hulk in terms of pure strength.

Originally posted by janus77
creshosk misquotes (removes a key line of text) ultimatethor there but, even so, there is one undeniable truth to be drawn from Onslaught "wanting" Hulk to destroy Onslaught's armour.

that is, Onslaught could not destroy his own armour, he wasn't strong enough, only Hulk could.

whatever way you want to slice it, Onslaught < Mindless Hulk in terms of pure strength.

So onslaught didn't have the strength to break the armor, needed the armor to be broken to acheive his goals, but didn't want Hulk to win?

Gee... yeah I'm really the delusional one, eh?

Originally posted by Creshosk
So onslaught didn't have the strength to break the armor, needed the armor to be broken to acheive his goals, but didn't want Hulk to win?

Gee... yeah I'm really the delusional one, eh?


excellent reading comprehension.

you should take remedial english or English as a second language, before trying anything as sophisticated as sarcasm.

and, just in case the above is far too subtle for you to understand, you missed my point and you - yet again - twisted the meaning to suit your weak argument.

to summarise my previous post:
IF Onslaught "wanted" Hulk to break Onslaught's armour, that implies Onslaught could not do such a thing by himself.
THUS Onslaught would be < Mindless Hulk, when it comes to pure strength.

my own reading of the situation is, similar to ultimatethor's actual statements (rather than your distortions):
Onslaught fought Hulk, attempted to kill him, didn't have the strength to get the job done and ended up having his armour busted and his physical form broken by Hulk. Onslaught immediately realises that he's now in an even more dynamic and powerful form as an energy/psi-entity, so began to gloat ... [and then shortly after, get defeated by absorption by all the heroes]