Originally posted by spetznaz
I think you guys are looking at this in the wrong manner. Have a quick logical view at what B3 will be about:i) Batman is on the run. Thus the film will be more of a redemptive process, whereby Batman has to show himself as 'good' while on the run from the police and negative public opinion.
ii) This means that the film will not have the time to bring out a complicated villain like the Riddler who would need a whole movie of his own just to develop the character well
iii) Also consider that Nolan's work is gritty genius ....he makes criminal movies where the heroes and villains just happen to wear costumes. This realistic bent instantly eliminates a lot of people like the Ventriloquist and Killer Croc as too unreal (honestly ....think of a Nolan Batman with a talking wooden dummy on someone's hand)
iv) As for Catwoman, she falls into the same basket as Robin. Interesting material, but too easy to mess up the movie and would require a whole movie (or more) to adequately develop them in a way that will fit in the Nolan universe.
v) Also consider that since the Batman will be fleeing from the cops, there is a likelihood that the criminal underground will also put out a hit on the Batman (bringing the possibility of some villains like Bane, Deadshot and Cain into play, who would fit in the Nolan universe and not require an entire movie to accomplish character development).
vi) Finally consider that B3 will be the last Nolan movie if he decides to make it a trilogy. This means he will be finishing it with a big bang, and thus will not take OBVIOUSLY silly tangents like some are mentioning here (like a team up between the Riddler and Two-face, which would be a really horrible way to wrap up the trilogy; or the Penguin which could easily make the gritty world of Nolan look like a Disneyworld freakshow).
Remember that the Batman films in Nolan's universe are supposed to be as real as they can get. As stated, the Godfather but with halloween costumes. Also note that it is the last movie and thus needs to end with a bang, and that the theme for the movie is ALREADY set (Batman on the run) which means that there might not be sufficient space for COMPLEX character development (which a GOOD reboot of Catwoman or the Penguin would require).
And finally consider that this is the movie where the Big Reveal of the Batcave will occur (since the Wayne Manor will have been finished, with the upgraded cave). Thus means there is a risk the movie would be too busy if all the ideas people are throwing about were implemented.
Also consider how Nolan thinks.
I'd say people are approaching this in the wrong way.
I understand your points, but i think Riddler is rather realistic, he's a man with obsessive compulsive disorder, a desire to create riddles, he can be a real gritty villain.
Bane and Black mask would work well for a 3rd film, but i think Riddler can be adapted into the next film, even if it be a more recent adaptation where he is a private detective.
Riddler would be best for the third movie for sure. They could possibly include Killer Croc as well which he could possibly use as his muscle. Or, they could have Scarecrow have a bigger role and in addition to the Riddler, we get Scarecrow who has come up with an even more lethal fear toxin which he happened to test on Killer Croc, making him even worse than before. All of that could totally work.
Originally posted by Da Joker
How so? Croc is the result of a skin disease, and if he's done the way he was in Gotham Knight, he'd be very believable.
No, epic fail. Killer Croc in Gotham Knight looked realistic for a cartoon, but live action? Hell no. Bane would look more realistic, and although Croc has a rare skin disease, he's probably the best choice since they'll want just any villain to throw in the mix while Batman escapes the police and yadda yadda. They'll most likely have two villains, one minor and the other major. Croc doesn't seem to be anything major if he's to fit Nolan's world.
Originally posted by spetznaz
v) Also consider that since the Batman will be fleeing from the cops, there is a likelihood that the criminal underground will also put out a hit on the Batman (bringing the possibility of some villains like Bane, Deadshot and Cain into play, who would fit in the Nolan universe and not require an entire movie to accomplish character development).
NO! NO! NO! BANE NEEDS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY HE'S NOT JUST SOME DUMBASS HIRED THUG!?
Originally posted by Almighty Bauer
NO! NO! NO! BANE NEEDS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY HE'S NOT JUST SOME DUMBASS HIRED THUG!?
I actually agree that Bane is not a simple character. In the comics he is quite intelligent, and came up with a plan to systematically break Batman's mind and constitution, before literally breaking his back.
It is only in the cartoons that he is portrayed as a brick, and in the Schumaker (spelling wrong) movie where he is depicted as a brainless muscle-head.
However, his level of complexity in the Nolan universe would be far less than that required for someone like Catwoman. Which is why I included him there.
If that is too much, I also included people like Cain or Deadshot as replacements.
As complex as Bane may be, he is nowhere near as complex as someone like Catwoman. Doing a sophisticated latin American criminal mastermind who likes taking a physical angle as a coup de gras to finish a crippling mental game is far easier than having a lithe female who jumps from rooftop to rooftop and likes to purr.
Particularly in Nolan's universe.
I hope that makes sense.
Originally posted by spetznaz
I actually agree that Bane is not a simple character. In the comics he is quite intelligent, and came up with a plan to systematically break Batman's mind and constitution, before literally breaking his back.It is only in the cartoons that he is portrayed as a brick, and in the Schumaker (spelling wrong) movie where he is depicted as a brainless muscle-head.
However, his level of complexity in the Nolan universe would be far less than that required for someone like Catwoman. Which is why I included him there.
If that is too much, I also included people like Cain or Deadshot as replacements.
As complex as Bane may be, he is nowhere near as complex as someone like Catwoman. Doing a sophisticated latin American criminal mastermind who likes taking a physical angle as a coup de gras to finish a crippling mental game is far easier than having a lithe female who jumps from rooftop to rooftop and likes to purr.
Particularly in Nolan's universe.
I hope that makes sense.
Originally posted by Bardock42Now that is a pretty cool suggestion for what to do with Bane. I thought that arc was pretty good, and while Bane would need a fair bit of change (though no more than Scarecrow or the Joker required), that would be pretty damn cool...
What I think might work quite nicely, would be Talia Al Ghul as the head of the League of Shadows and Bane as Ubu. Could work out, maybe in a sort of Contagion/Legacy fashion.
Originally posted by Starscream M
Here is why:1. No penguin....danny devito's penguin was iconic, Nolan won't touch it...also penguin isn't intimidating enough for bale batman
2. no clayface/Mr. Freeze...either requires too much suspension of belief and special effects...not Nolan's style. Nolan prefers gritty realistic villains.
3. no Catwoman...at least as a villain. it seems contrived to have a catwoman in the nolan batman canon, what with no mention of Selina in the 2 movies so far.
4. no two-face...as the only villain. Two-face simply can't carry a movie, also two-face wasn't really even a villain in the dark knight.
5. no joker...for obvious reasons
6. no riddler...too silly, too similar to joker's style of mental games...too wacky to fit in Nolan's batuniverse
7. No rha's al ghul...I just didn't like his portrayal by Nesson.
What Nolan prefers in villain is someone who is intimidating but also believable and realistic. That removes out clowns like scarface, mad hatter, killer croc and the other two bits.
Also, NO villain can mentally torture batman like the Joker. So the nxt villain has to PHYSICALLY beat the Batman.
And that brings us to Bane!
Bane is the perfect Nolan villain. He's smart, he's powerful, intimidating and he's new. He has an interesting but unwacky backstory, his intent to rule Gotham makes an interesting plotline, and him fighting with batman will deliver a new level of action excitement to the batman movie. So I say Bane should be the next major villain.
What do you think about Black Mask? Movie material?
Originally posted by Seer Q'Anilia
What do you think about Black Mask? Movie material?
Originally posted by Almighty Bauer
He is quite cool. My main problem with him is... would he come across as being a cheap copy of the Joker? I know he isn't in the comics, but the public at large would just see yet another insane, sadistic, facially deformed villain (yes, I know Joker wore make-up, but it comes to the same thing...), who manipulates the mob. Then again, I'm sure a director of Chris Nolan's quality could make Sionis work brilliantly...
Well, Black Mask might bring in some "muscles" to his mind. He has done it before. That way it could grant an opening to introduce yet another villain but perhaps of lesser calibur. Ask me not who, but someone that would make a good movie team-up with Black Mask perhaps.
Originally posted by Da Joker
I still think the Riddler would be one of the best options because, like the Joker, he could really get into Bruce's head, and we for sure need to see more of that.