Who is more powerful then brolly in DBZ

Originally posted by carver9
Now I dont agree with this.

Now this is what I disagree with. I think that brolly could achieve faster then light speed in space since there is no gravity holding you back which basically should increase your speed in space (even though I think that dbz characters been going that fast for a while now anyways). Vulcan took hours to fly from genosha to the xmen mansion but when he was looking for the shiar empire which is located on the other side of the universe, it only took him a week to find it which is multiple times that of the speed of light. Brolly could have easily reach beyond light speed while flying through space.

He is both and not one of them is beyond any other saiyan reach. Goku can move the speed of light along with majority of the z fighters.

Yes he can but lets not forget, it was two minutes left before planet namek blew up and frieza said that he would be long gone by the time planet namek exploded.

I agree, unless somehow goku created a spirit bomb at tremendous speed which I still dont think should hurt brolly. Brolly durability was outstanding and he was growing in power by the second.

Cell took more, lets not forget that cell fought an ascended trunks and vegeta and krillin at the same time and stood there while they were punching him and didnt flinch. Vegeta then shot him with a blast that his body split in half and krillin hit him in the neck with a destructoe disk that did nothing. I cant see brolly taking that assault either.

What character in dbz dont use super speed, oh your taking about sonic booms, well I guess since flash was going mach9 he should have created a sonic boom, maybe you can show me a boom in this scan.

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amazo3ll5.jpg

because I dont see one, so I guess mach 9 was a lie.

2. Hmmm that is true. I had not considered that. Though I won't claim Broly is FTL unless I can get some actual concrete evidence he is.

3. No one in DBZ can claim to have destroyed a galaxy in DBZ, let alone a whole galaxy quadrant. As for FTL, I personally don't believe anyone in canon is, though I would like to see that lightning scene you were talking about from Dragonball.

4. Well the Namek explosion was not really all that big to tell the truth, so yeah I would imagine Frieza in two minutes could escape the blast in time since he can breathe in space.

5. Well it can be argued being pure evil would hurt Broly even more when hit by a Spirit Bomb.

6. And Broly took a point blank Kamehameha and didn't flinch, he took all his opponent's attacks without flinching, and absolutely destroyed Vegeta much worse than Cell did. Well Broly doesn't have regeneration like Cell does, though the Final Flash wouldn't have blown him in half. The Destructo Disc from Krillin wouldn't do shit either.

7. Oh no I am referring to the scene where they are all punching at Broly who while on top of a pole on a building was just leaning left and right and avoiding there punches.

Um...how can something pure evil be less evil than something that was just crazy and evil?

There wasnt a known enemy that was more ruthless then brolly and thats a fact.

Broli may have been evil but to say he was more evil than Buu is just wrong.

Brolly is more ruthless, buu followed a leader brolly had to be put under a trans to even listen to his father and spare his life. Brolly was much more ruthless and thats plane and simple.

Kid Buu was nothing but pure evil with no kind of good in him.

He must had some kid, he spared babidi father bibidi.

Super Buu also. He was made from Buu expelling evil out of him.

and still did nothing to make me think that he was close to being more evil then brolly.

[The only good inside Super Buu were the people he absorbed while Kid Buu didn't have that after he spit out Fat Buu.

Which weakened him and gave him a concious.

Kid Buu's intention was to just destroy and have fun...Not to kill Gokou specifically.

Buu wanted to fight and along with destroying unless you can explain to me why he left so soon when vegeta and goku powered up to get his attention. If kid buu wanted nothing but destruction he would have blown up the grand ki planet and didnt care if he felt goku and vegeta power. He felt a challenge in goku and he wanted to test his might to see if it was true.

Why does everybody say he couldn't have just used a saiyan space pod to get from place?

What are you talking about?

They are ftl....Why does Broli suddenly need ftl speed?

He dont need it but since you think that superman is faster then light, do me a favor and put up a scan of superman or wonder woman fighting faster or as fast as the speed of light and provide some proof that its over the speed of sound. Thats another debate that is going on in the comic vs forum. People are waiting on scans proving that superman has blitzed someone at the speed of light. Maybe you can help me so that I can post that scan proving that he can.

Yea...you still have the notion DBZ characters are light speed. They haven't ever moved light speed. Heck even in the Buu Saga it takes them a while to fly places on Earth that would be instant at light speed.

They are well above light speed since tien as a teenager was running 1000 mps and wasnt maxed out and he wasnt even trying. Or how about the fact that popo taught goku how to move faster then lightning when he had goku get the crown that was in another dimension. All of this was as a child. Or I could just use the notion that yamch admitting of goku moving the speed of light and this was during the time goku had weighted clothing on and was taking them off.

Freeza survivng in space means what when Broli is mentioned? Because it's kinda proven any saiyan minus Broli is unable to survive in space.

I agree with this, they cant survive in space but I do know one thing frieza was going to be long gone from the planet in less then two minutes which is amazing speed but again I dont count space flight since there is no gravity to weigh you down.

Broli took a point blank full power Kamehameha and just walked through it.

From a goku thats not even close to being as strong as the trunks or vegeta that fought cell.

Cell had the top of his body blown off by Vegeta's Final Flash who was a whole lot weaker than him.

By a much weaker vegeta then the one that fought cell.

Broli also took every blow without any troube it, and every blast as if it was nothing.

Cell did the same thing by much stronger opponents then the one that brolly fought.

You do know that the speed force sort of nulls any sonic booms from happening? Using Flash is a bad example....And Superman has said he has learned to supress sonic booms while on Earth so he's a bad example also.

Excuses like usually, flash has created a sonic boom more then once but let me help you a little more. Here is superman in a race against the flashes, why didnt superman create a sonic boom. Lets see what excuse you come up with now because in order to keep up with wally he had to be going faster then sound. Show me a scan saying that tapping in the speed force stops sonic booms. I also cant believe that you said superman know how to supress his sonic booms. Please show me where you got that from being that require magic to do that and from my knowledge superman isnt a magical being. LOL at that comment you made. So I have a couple of scans to wait for. Show me superman fighting at light speed with it SAYING that he is fighting that fast and show me superman taking away sonic booms (LOL).

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/kadabracwal.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/kadabracwal2.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/kadabracwal3.jpg

1. Which is why I said there is no evidence he didn't. 😛

LOL, gotcha

2. Hmmm that is true. I had not considered that. Though I won't claim Broly is FTL unless I can get some actual concrete evidence he is.

I'll find that scan showing goku as a child being faster then lightning.

3. No one in DBZ can claim to have destroyed a galaxy in DBZ, let alone a whole galaxy quadrant. As for FTL, I personally don't believe anyone in canon is, though I would like to see that lightning scene you were talking about from Dragonball.

Cell holds just as much power as brolly with buu being his superior. They can mimic his blast and who ever said that was the limit of brollys power.

Well the Namek explosion was not really all that big to tell the truth, so yeah I would imagine Frieza in two minutes could escape the blast in time since he can breathe in space.

It was a big blast and it would still is impressive for frieza to escape the blast in two minutes without even feeling the shock waves and how many times in dbz have you seen a z character standing on the ground and instantly they are cloud height. I have seen that too many times.

5. Well it can be argued being pure evil would hurt Broly even more when hit by a Spirit Bomb.

I agree since he is as evil as you can get.

6. And Broly took a point blank Kamehameha and didn't flinch, he took all his opponent's attacks without flinching, and absolutely destroyed Vegeta much worse than Cell did. Well Broly doesn't have regeneration like Cell does, though the Final Flash wouldn't have blown him in half. The Destructo Disc from Krillin wouldn't do shit either.

And he took all of this from much weaker characters then the ones that cell fought. Im pretty sure that the black hair goku that fought frieza can shrug off attacks coming from both nappa and vegeta during the cell saga.

7. Oh no I am referring to the scene where they are all punching at Broly who while on top of a pole on a building was just leaning left and right and avoiding there punches.

I agree, that was a nice scene of brolly but that still dont change the fact that cell could be faster then him since brolly was fighting much weaker characters. He is fast as hell, extremely fast but I just think that perfect cell was much faster and why was brolly dodging there attacks when he didnt have too. They werent a threat to him. I guess he was showing off.

And kento, is that all you wanted was a mere sonic boom. Tien created one of them as a child in regular dragonball.

http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0008kq7.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
There wasnt a known enemy that was more ruthless then brolly and thats a fact.

Brolly is more ruthless, buu followed a leader brolly had to be put under a trans to even listen to his father and spare his life. Brolly was much more ruthless and thats plane and simple.

He must had some kid, he spared babidi father bibidi.

and still did nothing to make me think that he was close to being more evil then brolly.

Which weakened him and gave him a concious.

Buu wanted to fight and along with destroying unless you can explain to me why he left so soon when vegeta and goku powered up to get his attention. If kid buu wanted nothing but destruction he would have blown up the grand ki planet and didnt care if he felt goku and vegeta power. He felt a challenge in goku and he wanted to test his might to see if it was true.

What are you talking about?

He dont need it but since you think that superman is faster then light, do me a favor and put up a scan of superman or wonder woman fighting faster or as fast as the speed of light and provide some proof that its over the speed of sound. Thats another debate that is going on in the comic vs forum. People are waiting on scans proving that superman has blitzed someone at the speed of light. Maybe you can help me so that I can post that scan proving that he can.

They are well above light speed since tien as a teenager was running 1000 mps and wasnt maxed out and he wasnt even trying. Or how about the fact that popo taught goku how to move faster then lightning when he had goku get the crown that was in another dimension. All of this was as a child. Or I could just use the notion that yamch admitting of goku moving the speed of light and this was during the time goku had weighted clothing on and was taking them off.

I agree with this, they cant survive in space but I do know one thing frieza was going to be long gone from the planet in less then two minutes which is amazing speed but again I dont count space flight since there is no gravity to weigh you down.

From a goku thats not even close to being as strong as the trunks or vegeta that fought cell.

By a much weaker vegeta then the one that fought cell.

Cell did the same thing by much stronger opponents then the one that brolly fought.

Excuses like usually, flash has created a sonic boom more then once but let me help you a little more. Here is superman in a race against the flashes, why didnt superman create a sonic boom. Lets see what excuse you come up with now because in order to keep up with wally he had to be going faster then sound. Show me a scan saying that tapping in the speed force stops sonic booms. I also cant believe that you said superman know how to supress his sonic booms. Please show me where you got that from being that require magic to do that and from my knowledge superman isnt a magical being. LOL at that comment you made. So I have a couple of scans to wait for. Show me superman fighting at light speed with it SAYING that he is fighting that fast and show me superman taking away sonic booms (LOL).

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/kadabracwal.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/kadabracwal2.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/kadabracwal3.jpg

Kid Buu became Fat Buu while Bibidi was still around..Fat Buu wasn't pure evil.

I said he wanted to have fun..He didn't exactly try in his fight against Gokou because he was having fun fighting. And when Kid Buu spit out Fat Buu he would have killed Satan had Fat Buu not interfered. What did Broli do that was so evil? He killed his father...who was controlling him anyway and it's not like he was a caring father. He also destroyed a empty planet that the little aliens use to call home...It's not like he killed them. Broli toyed with the Z fighters just like Buu did except Buu killed more people and did it all in fun.

I was talking about earlier when Jaxx (I think) said saiyan space pods weren't fast enough to get around the galaxy. Nobody knows how big the galaxy is in Z and the saiyan space pods are a lot faster than light.

Who said anything about fighting? The Z fighters sure can't fly at light speed....Superman on that other hand has proven he can fly..and he's also bullrushed people also at light speed.

When did Yamcha ever say Gokou moved at light speed? And one needs to be light speed to dodge lightning? And since you like to take character statements as fact then Kakashi must be ftl also since he cut a lightning bolt in half and has just gotten faster. And a lot of the Naruto cast as well.

Freeza had a spaceship....A ftl spaceship. He wasn't going to fly away on his own.

Except to fit it in to any part of Z...they would be as strong as they were when the Cell games started because Trunks has long hair, and putting it into a different universe you can't prove who was stronger or not. And even still Vegeta was extremely weaker than Perfect Cell but Z fighters can charge up attacks that are higher than what their actual power level is (as shown by Piccolo in the Radditz fight) and Vegeta was able to hurt Cell, and Broli was able to walk through a charged up Kamehameha like it was nothing. Something I don't remember anybody in DBZ doing. They may not have been killed but it has hurt whoever it hits besides Broli.

Superman said it when he intentionally creates a sonic boom as he flies through a ship about how he learned to supress sonic booms in Earth's atmosphere as he grew older. And when has Flash ever created a sonic boom? Even in the fight against Amazo you posted that took like a second he didn't even create any. I can't remember one comic I read where Wally or Bart ever have either. Not that I've read much Impulse or Flash comics but in JLA and Young Justice they haven't.

Originally posted by carver9
And kento, is that all you wanted was a mere sonic boom. Tien created one of them as a child in regular dragonball.

http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0008kq7.jpg

Super Buu killed every remaining person on Earth just to fight a strong opponent. Yea how is Broli more ruthless than a guy who will kill anybody just to fight somebody strong

Brolly was much more ruthless, anyone can tell you that.

Kid Buu became Fat Buu while Bibidi was still around..Fat Buu wasn't pure evil.

I know that fat buu wasnt pure evil but kid buu wasnt either until he spat fat buu out.

I said he wanted to have fun..He didn't exactly try in his fight against Gokou because he was having fun fighting. And when Kid Buu spit out Fat Buu he would have killed Satan had Fat Buu not interfered.

He tried against goku, if anyone wasnt trying it was goku since he could have killed buu in the beginning.

What did Broli do that was so evil?

Everything about brolly was pure evil. Destroying a galaxy full of innocent people is evil enough and then destroying another planet while laughing shows a sign of evil.

He also destroyed a empty planet that the little aliens use to call home...It's not like he killed them.

If you seen the show you would have seen that he killed some of them before he went super saiyan and laughed.

Broli toyed with the Z fighters just like Buu did except Buu killed more people and did it all in fun.

Brolli never toyed with the z fighters. Hell he was stepping on goku destroying the planet. Why would you play with someone while doing city destroying steps. Why would you punch someone from one end of the mountain to the other if you were playing with them (by the way doomsday slammed superman head into a moutain and koed him but goku got rammed into a mountain and then got beaten from one end of the moutain to the other and was still intact.).

I was talking about earlier when Jaxx (I think) said saiyan space pods weren't fast enough to get around the galaxy. Nobody knows how big the galaxy is in Z and the saiyan space pods are a lot faster than light.

My bad about the misunderstanding.

Who said anything about fighting? The Z fighters sure can't fly at light speed....

Your opinion since goku wanted pan to fly around the world and she did it in two minutes and goku said that was too slow and this was when she was a baby. So goku himself was teaching her how to go faster then light. As a baby (she was 4) she was already going faster then sound, a lot faster then sound.

Superman on that other hand has proven he can fly..and he's also bullrushed people also at light speed.

Superman hasnt proven sh**. He has some of the most amazing space flight that I have seen but can you show me this scan of superman bullrushing someone at light speed so that I can post it in the comic vs forum because everyone is looking for it. Superman has not as of yet fought at light speed and he only have one instance of him even fighting at the speed of sound (creating sonic booms with punches). In order for something to be concrete it has to happen more then once so can you show me superman fighting again at those levels or even faster.

When did Yamcha ever say Gokou moved at light speed?

I already told you when, when goku decided to stop playing around with tien and was about to take off his weighted cloths.

And one needs to be light speed to dodge lightning?

No they dont but its pretty da** close and its amazing that goku as a child was moving close to that speed anyway.

And since you like to take character statements as fact then Kakashi must be ftl also since he cut a lightning bolt in half and has just gotten faster.

Was this a lightning bolt conjured by someone or is this regular lightning coming from the sky. By the way, it was already stated on naruto that there are characters that can move as fast as light. Are you even looking at shapuden.

Freeza had a spaceship....A ftl spaceship. He wasn't going to fly away on his own.

LOL, this is ridiculous. It was so da** clear that frieza was going to fly away, he even said that he can breath in space. Why would he say that if he wasnt going to fly away himself. Kento youre being ridiculous and just throwing what was said out of the window.

Except to fit it in to any part of Z...they would be as strong as they were when the Cell games started because Trunks has long hair, and putting it into a different universe you can't prove who was stronger or not. And even still Vegeta was extremely weaker than Perfect Cell but Z fighters can charge up attacks that are higher than what their actual power level is (as shown by Piccolo in the Radditz fight) and Vegeta was able to hurt Cell, and Broli was able to walk through a charged up Kamehameha like it was nothing. Something I don't remember anybody in DBZ doing. They may not have been killed but it has hurt whoever it hits besides Broli.

Brolli was fighting much weaker incarnations of the characters.

Superman said it when he intentionally creates a sonic boom as he flies through a ship about how he learned to supress sonic booms in Earth's atmosphere as he grew older.

If thats the case then why did superman say that he have to slow down when passing cities, etc... because a sonic boom could hurt them. If he could surpress his sonic boom then there was no need for that statement.

And when has Flash ever created a sonic boom?

Plenty of times.

Even in the fight against Amazo you posted that took like a second he didn't even create any.

So why didnt amazo create sonic booms, he dont have control of the speed force like wally does. Im still waiting on that scan where superman say that he can supress his sonic booms and Im waiting on the faster then light bull rush and Im also waiting on the scan saying that since flash has the speed force it stops him from creating sonic booms. Kento, I can tell that youre making stuff up while your posting and its funny as hell.

When did I ask for a sonic boom..And that's not a sonic boom or Yamcha would have made one also.

Thats a sonic boom unless you can tell me what it was. When he ran off it said BOOM and tien was faster then yamcha. Again, can you please stop taking away from feats. Its so da** clear that that was a sonic boom.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL, gotcha

I'll find that scan showing goku as a child being faster then lightning.

Cell holds just as much power as brolly with buu being his superior. They can mimic his blast and who ever said that was the limit of brollys power.

It was a big blast and it would still is impressive for frieza to escape the blast in two minutes without even feeling the shock waves and how many times in dbz have you seen a z character standing on the ground and instantly they are cloud height. I have seen that too many times.

I agree since he is as evil as you can get.

And he took all of this from much weaker characters then the ones that cell fought. Im pretty sure that the black hair goku that fought frieza can shrug off attacks coming from both nappa and vegeta during the cell saga.

I agree, that was a nice scene of brolly but that still dont change the fact that cell could be faster then him since brolly was fighting much weaker characters. He is fast as hell, extremely fast but I just think that perfect cell was much faster and why was brolly dodging there attacks when he didnt have too. They werent a threat to him. I guess he was showing off.

2. That is simply not true. There isn't a feat they have which even comes close to suggesting this. Broly is not a canon character like they are, he is not present in the canon DBZ bad guy hierarchy which states Frieza<Cell<Buu. They have never shown to be able to make a blast that can destroy most of a galaxy quadrant.

3. I'm not arguing this. I know he could easily escape it in two minutes.

4. There is really no proof they are weaker than the ones Cell fought in all honesty. And none of them could even come close to harming him so it doesn't matter. His feats cement him as much stronger than Cell.

5. Yeah he was showing how much stronger he is.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Kay.

2. That is simply not true. There isn't a feat they have which even comes close to suggesting this. Broly is not a canon character like they are, he is not present in the canon DBZ bad guy hierarchy which states Frieza<Cell<Buu. They have never shown to be able to make a blast that can destroy most of a galaxy quadrant.

3. I'm not arguing this. I know he could easily escape it in two minutes.

4. There is really no proof they are weaker than the ones Cell fought in all honesty. And none of them could even come close to harming him so it doesn't matter. His feats cement him as much stronger than Cell.

5. Yeah he was showing how much stronger he is.

Good post. I have nothing on here that I can argue against. You got me. 🙁

The sad thing kento is just you really dont truly understand how fast dragonball is. They basically dodge multiples of blasts coming at them at tremendous speeds. Blast that has made it to the sun in minutes and you have dbz characters dodging them like they're nothing. Then you have dbz characters dodging 100s of punches coming at them in seconds like its nothing. Hell raditz alone dodge a blast from picollo that made it to the moon instantly. Goku had to hold him so that the blast could even touch him. Goku was moving so fast that multiples of blasts was going through his body.

Where in the manga did it state Brolly or any Supersaiyan 2 can just blow up a galaxy? Brolly went from planet to planet and blew it up. Alot of characters on DBZ could do that.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Where in the manga did it state Brolly or any Supersaiyan 2 can just blow up a galaxy? Brolly went from planet to planet and blew it up. Alot of characters on DBZ could do that.

And the only character who went from planet to planet to blow it up was Kid Buu, who is immortal and has infinite time to accomplish such a feat.

Originally posted by carver9
Brolly was much more ruthless, anyone can tell you that.

I know that fat buu wasnt pure evil but kid buu wasnt either until he spat fat buu out.

He tried against goku, if anyone wasnt trying it was goku since he could have killed buu in the beginning.

Everything about brolly was pure evil. Destroying a galaxy full of innocent people is evil enough and then destroying another planet while laughing shows a sign of evil.

If you seen the show you would have seen that he killed some of them before he went super saiyan and laughed.

Brolli never toyed with the z fighters. Hell he was stepping on goku destroying the planet. Why would you play with someone while doing city destroying steps. Why would you punch someone from one end of the mountain to the other if you were playing with them (by the way doomsday slammed superman head into a moutain and koed him but goku got rammed into a mountain and then got beaten from one end of the moutain to the other and was still intact.).

My bad about the misunderstanding.

Your opinion since goku wanted pan to fly around the world and she did it in two minutes and goku said that was too slow and this was when she was a baby. So goku himself was teaching her how to go faster then light. As a baby (she was 4) she was already going faster then sound, a lot faster then sound.

Superman hasnt proven sh**. He has some of the most amazing space flight that I have seen but can you show me this scan of superman bullrushing someone at light speed so that I can post it in the comic vs forum because everyone is looking for it. Superman has not as of yet fought at light speed and he only have one instance of him even fighting at the speed of sound (creating sonic booms with punches). In order for something to be concrete it has to happen more then once so can you show me superman fighting again at those levels or even faster.

I already told you when, when goku decided to stop playing around with tien and was about to take off his weighted cloths.

No they dont but its pretty da** close and its amazing that goku as a child was moving close to that speed anyway.

Was this a lightning bolt conjured by someone or is this regular lightning coming from the sky. By the way, it was already stated on naruto that there are characters that can move as fast as light. Are you even looking at shapuden.

LOL, this is ridiculous. It was so da** clear that frieza was going to fly away, he even said that he can breath in space. Why would he say that if he wasnt going to fly away himself. Kento youre being ridiculous and just throwing what was said out of the window.

Brolli was fighting much weaker incarnations of the characters.

If thats the case then why did superman say that he have to slow down when passing cities, etc... because a sonic boom could hurt them. If he could surpress his sonic boom then there was no need for that statement.

Plenty of times.

So why didnt amazo create sonic booms, he dont have control of the speed force like wally does. Im still waiting on that scan where superman say that he can supress his sonic booms and Im waiting on the faster then light bull rush and Im also waiting on the scan saying that since flash has the speed force it stops him from creating sonic booms. Kento, I can tell that youre making stuff up while your posting and its funny as hell.

Thats a sonic boom unless you can tell me what it was. When he ran off it said BOOM and tien was faster then yamcha. Again, can you please stop taking away from feats. Its so da** clear that that was a sonic boom.

Kid Buu didn't try..he let Vegeta and Gokou talk while mocking them. Gokou even says Kid Buu is playing with him. Gokou also admits he had been trying to kill Kid Buu since the beginning.

Broli did nothing but toy with the Z fighters...He could have easily just killed them all but didn't. And Gokou surviving like he did against Broli at the end was PIS. He was taken out easily in their first clash yet he's suddenly able to stand up to the attacks while near death?

When did I ever say they weren't faster than sound? They still haven't shown FTL speeds while at all. And two minutes being to slow doesn't mean he wants her to fly around the planet seven times in like a second...Or that Gokou can either. The have the potential to probably reach and exceed light speed but they never did before the series ended.

Superman has shown faster flight on Earth than anybody in DBZ...Space he's blown anything they've done out of the water. When did Superman create sonic booms with his punches by punching that fast? Also Superman easily catches bullets from multiple directions and your really going to say he doesn't have the speed to fight faster than sound at the very least? Yet aren't you one of the people who uses Roshi catching bullets, and Gokou blocking bullets to prove they are faster than sound? And you keep bringing up fighting..All I said was moving. Also against Amazo if I remember right...he bullrushes at light speed...It really isn't hard for Superman to ram into somebody at light speed when he can go faster.

Um Tobi is stated to teleport at light speed....Nobody else. And Kakashi's chidori got it's nickname lightning blade because he cut a lightning bolt in half. The Naruto characters are much slower than light speed, and slower than DB characters. I doubt the Naruto characters are much faster than sound if they are even that. It took them three days to get to the Sand Country at the start of shippuden. Yea not light speed. Sasuke's move Kirin was as fast as lightning and Itachi was able to summon Susanno before it hit..and he's still not anywhere close to light.

And why would Freeza fly off the planet when he has a ship to fly away that moves ftl when he doesn't?

Because you have so much proof they are weaker against Broli than when they fought Cell?

And there was no need for the statement that he can supress sonic booms if he can't. Which is still all pointless arguement when he's gone over sound and never created sonic booms plenty of times. Going to a different country, getting a bottle of wine or whatever he got, and getting back before Lois can even finish a sentence is going faster than sound...Sonic Boom should have destroyed his house and hurt her...nothing. He flew ftl to metropolis from another solar system...no sonic booms destroying anything, running faster than sound racing flash no sonic booms....Or ya know you could just go with the fact that the DC universe doesn't have all the laws of physics because...it's a comic.

Then it shouldn't be hard to find Flash creating a sonic boom after he got the speed force, and without him wanting it to happen.....

Amazo had Flash's power...his powers come from the speed force...

Here's Superman saying before he learned to supress sonic booms
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermansupresssonicbooms.jpg

less than 3/10ths of a second after Batman sounds alarm Superman has already attacked, is said to be nearly as fast as Flash..by Flash himself who fights Amazo in a second.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/SupermanBlitz.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/SupermanBlitz1.jpg

I'll try to find the other scan of Superman saying he can supress sonic booms when he saves Lois and Jimmy...and I'll try to find out where I seen the speed force protects Flash from...well any effects of speed.

Because it couldn't be the fact he just pushed off concrete really hard...and Yamcha seemed to be moving faster in that picture. The same thing behind Tien is behind Yamcha just farther back and all that says is dash.

Originally posted by carver9
The sad thing kento is just you really dont truly understand how fast dragonball is. They basically dodge multiples of blasts coming at them at tremendous speeds. Blast that has made it to the sun in minutes and you have dbz characters dodging them like they're nothing. Then you have dbz characters dodging 100s of punches coming at them in seconds like its nothing. Hell raditz alone dodge a blast from picollo that made it to the moon instantly. Goku had to hold him so that the blast could even touch him. Goku was moving so fast that multiples of blasts was going through his body.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Where in the manga did it state Brolly or any Supersaiyan 2 can just blow up a galaxy? Brolly went from planet to planet and blew it up. Alot of characters on DBZ could do that.

Ummm..... Burori isn't a manga character... so anyone would be hardpressed to find where it was stated he blew up a galaxy.

When did I ever say they weren't faster than sound?

Plenty of times when you said that they dont create sonic booms. Thats the hole point of me putting up the tien scan WHICH DID CREATE A SONIC BOOM.

They still haven't shown FTL speeds while at all.

Goku slapping multiples of frieza finger blast out the air shows much more then light speed. Can superman do the same thing if someone was shooting lasers at him. If you say yes I know that you have a scan to prove this.

And two minutes being to slow doesn't mean he wants her to fly around the planet seven times in like a second...

If pan can fly around the world in two minutes and back to her destination then she should be able to pull off that feat of superman getting that wine easily.

The have the potential to probably reach and exceed light speed but they never did before the series ended.

They been had the potential to go light speed.

Superman has shown faster flight on Earth than anybody in DBZ...

Not light speed, the only thing I remember of superman been stated attempting light speed is when a god was talking to him but even then its questionable because he never made it known that superman was going that fast.

Space he's blown anything they've done out of the water.

In space rogue has blown what dragonball has done out of the water but dragonball characters would still whip that ass. She flew from the moon to the xmen mansion in less then a second after being punched by binary.

When did Superman create sonic booms with his punches by punching that fast?

Forgot the name of the comic but thats the best combat feat that he ever had. Its on the goku vs superman thread.

Also Superman easily catches bullets from multiple directions and your really going to say he doesn't have the speed to fight faster than sound at the very least?

I never said that sound is his max flight speed but his combat speed aint shit. Again flight dont equal combat speed. Two different things. Northstar has the ability to fly the speed of light but his combat speed aint shit, quicksilver has thrashed him before. Superboy prime has the ability to fly light speed but got curbed stomped by flash when they encountered. He had to retreat, he ran from the flash. Do you want to know why, combat speed dont equal flight speed. Wonderwoman has flown around the world keeping up with superman but got her ass handed to her by both flash and zoom. She even say that shes fast but she dont have the combat speed to keep up with flash and got whipped also because again flight speed dont equal combat speed. Two different things.

So yes I agree, superman can catch bullets just like goku as a child use to catch bullets. Now goku has stepped it up a notch and is catching blast that make it to the moon in less then a second.Now goku is moving so fast that blasts are going through his body but it looks like he is just standing in one spot. Now goku is moving so fast that when he punch you he is instantly behind your back punching you again. Now goku is so fast that he fly towards you and punch you but its a after image punching at you and he come back in the place of the after image punching you. Goku is on a entire different level then superman. Superman is great for fighting other dc characters but would get overwhelmed fighting black hair goku.

Yet aren't you one of the people who uses Roshi catching bullets, and Gokou blocking bullets to prove they are faster than sound?

I never said that superman wasnt faster then sound. I truly think that he is but that doesnt mean that he has combat speed that puts him in that category, unless you can show me some besides the one where hes punching at the speed of sound.

And you keep bringing up fighting..All I said was moving.

I understand that but I want to see superman creating multiples of after images while fighting. The only one that you might be able to put up is the one where superman is fighting imperex. For a guy that can fight so fast I know that you have another instance of him making MULTIPLES of after images. I can find one for flash.

Also against Amazo if I remember right...he bullrushes at light speed...It really isn't hard for Superman to ram into somebody at light speed when he can go faster.

Who said that superman was going even close to the speed of light when he rammed amazo. Superman could have already been there or flash could have made it down there around about the same time superman made it. Hell flash was only going mach 9 and was able to hit amazo and almost kill him. Not impressed. You see this blast that Superman was hit by, goku would have easily dodge it without a problem and please dont say that amazo was moving at incredible speed because the others seen him and please dont say that superman was weakened from his 1st encounter when zitana cured him of his red sun poison. That blast wouldnt have touched goku and goku would have been all over amazo.

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amazo9tp6.jpg

And why would Freeza fly off the planet when he has a ship to fly away that moves ftl when he doesn't?

The question is why would frieza bring up him being able to breath outside of space if he wasnt planning on flying himself? Its common sense man. Frieza fly and fight faster then light.

And there was no need for the statement that he can supress sonic booms if he can't.

You still havent prove that he can surpress sonic booms. He said that he was learning how to do it, not that he can do it.

Which is still all pointless arguement when he's gone over sound and never created sonic booms plenty of times. Going to a different country, getting a bottle of wine or whatever he got, and getting back before Lois can even finish a sentence is going faster than sound...Sonic Boom should have destroyed his house and hurt her...nothing.

Which is easy for a baby pan to do since she flew around the world in two minutes.

He flew ftl to metropolis from another solar system...no sonic booms destroying anything,

I dont think that you can create sonic booms in space.

running faster than sound racing flash no sonic booms....

I know superman can go faster then sound but dont say that goku cant because you dont see a sonic boom. For everytime that you name for goku a sonic boom not being created, I can name one for superman.

Then it shouldn't be hard to find Flash creating a sonic boom after he got the speed force, and without him wanting it to happen.....

We're both waiting for scans because I want to see superman fighting at light speed and it actually saying that he is fighting that fast.

Amazo had Flash's power...his powers come from the speed force...

So now amazo can controll the speed force. So Im guessing that he has flashes other abilities that the speed force grant him like giving someone speed and taking away a persons speed. Do you have any kind of way of proving this or are you making up stuff again.

I'll try to find the other scan of Superman saying he can supress sonic booms when he saves Lois and Jimmy...and I'll try to find out where I seen the speed force protects Flash from...well any effects of speed.

Ok

Because it couldn't be the fact he just pushed off concrete really hard...and Yamcha seemed to be moving faster in that picture. The same thing behind Tien is behind Yamcha just farther back and all that says is dash.

So him pushing off concrete would make a loud boom like that. You do know that yamcha, krillin, tien, and chazu was running 500 mps before the tournament. Im pretty sure that they were able to reach the speed of sound during the tournament.

To bad said blasts are seen by normal people quite easily...

What people, are you referring to the z fighters or do you have a instance besides the slow kamahameha wave that a human seen a blast. I'll be waiting.

So they aren't ftl and you have like two instances where they can even been said to be compared to like 291 episodes where they aren't.

Thats you in denial.

And really...it takes them like 5 minutes to get from Kami's lookout to Cell's arena,

Gokou was unable to just easily save his sons and Trunks who weren't that far away from a blast that wasn't moving anywhere close to light speed.

Again, how do you know how fast the blast was moving when they slow things down in dbz for us to see it. If superman is so fast why in his comic for tomorrow did a group of soldiers die because he was like some feat away but still couldnt catch not one bullet. Light would have circled around the world 5 times and still had enought time to catch the bullets but superman statement was "even though Im faster then a bullet, sometimes being faster isnt enough."

There hasn't been one instance of them actually moving faster than light.

There havent been one instance of superman fighting at light speed or even fighting on the level of a dbz character.

I am pretty sure SSJ Gogeta can take him. 🙂

Originally posted by JacopeX
I am pretty sure SSJ Gogeta can take him. 🙂

Can take who, brolly.

I have never said they were slower than sound..

To bad said blasts can't be proven ftl...And Wonder Woman has blocked lasers before eaily and she's slower than Superman.

Because it takes two minutes to say a couple of words? It would take Pan two minutes to get there and back..that's without even getting anything.

Sure they have the potential to reach...Doesn't mean they did.

Superman has flown on Earth at near light speed...a bit behind Flash who basically states he is running faster than light speed. And that still doesn't change the fact that Superman has still moved faster on Earth than any Z fighter has ever shown...Be it below light speed or not.

Um using people saying they can't fight Flash is kinda wrong. Flash is the fastest person in DC so of course Wonder Woman, Superman, and Prime are going to be slower. Zoom if I remember is always ahead in the time stream so he's going to be hard to actually beat in h2h also.

Except said blasts that attack aren't light speed, Superman has effortlessly while not paying attention caught multiple machine gun fire from different directions, and Superman has done everything Gokou has done to a higher degree. Going to France and back without even being noticed to move > anything Gokou can hope to accomplish. Gokou can create after images of himself, and disappear in bursts of speed in a small general area but he can't do the same thing and move around the Earth. Superman has proven he has the reflexes on par with his speed. The fact he doesn't destroy anything by moving so fast he doesn't seem to move yet going through buildings proves it.

Superman doesn't use the speed he has in most fights. Just because he doesn't use it doesn't mean he can't when he's shown the reflexes to match his speed.

Um Flash said himself that Superman got there first because he was closer, and that while Superman isn't faster than him he's close. He also went mach 9 to try and hit Amazo never said he went faster or slower than it took to get there, and he didn't nearly kill Amazo because Amazo dodged using super speed. He still said the battle took a second, and that Superman is almost as fast as him, and that in 3/10ths of a second that it took him to get down there Superman had already fought and was loosing by being hit with red sun energy.

Flash even says that Superman was unable to counter super speed retaliation. Flash had also stolen all of Amazo's speed by the time the JLA got there so they are going to be able to see him. Flash even said that they JLA would be dead before they knew what was happening if he didn't stop Amazo.

Because Freeza knew he could survive in space while Gokou couldn't. Doesn't mean he can fight or fly ftl. There is no instances of that at all. Everytime they fly anywhere it always takes time that if they were ftl would be instant.

And he was talking about when he was still a teenager....Before he had learned to.

Pan can't move halfway around the planet, and back without even looking like she didn't move..much less while also getting something and bringing it back. I never said Z fighters are slower than sound ever. I have said moving faster than somebody can see doesn't prove anything since street levels have.

The difference is..I never said anything about Superman fighting.

I'm talking about every single time they fight in front of humans without any powers the blasts are seen.

I'm in denial? Even though every tournament the blasts are seen easily.

I don't know because Gokou goes to Kami's Lookout then they say they are leaving, then the Cell games are said to start in five minutes, and they get there right before they start. Also the blast wasn't moving fast because Mr. Satan could tell what was happening, and so could Dende. The small blast Buu shot moved faster than the large one.

Was Superman doing something else at said time? And how long ago was it? Because Superman wasn't much faster than sound at one point post-crisis.

There have been multiple instances where Superman has done something proving he has the reflexes to match his speed. Just because he doesn't always fight using super speed doesn't mean he doesn't have reflexes to. Besides he always starts off a fight with a bullrush half the time. That would hit plenty of people slower than him, and hurt plenty of people not invincible.

Originally posted by Kento
I have never said they were slower than sound..

To bad said blasts can't be proven ftl...And Wonder Woman has blocked lasers before eaily and she's slower than Superman.

Because it takes two minutes to say a couple of words? It would take Pan two minutes to get there and back..that's without even getting anything.

Sure they have the potential to reach...Doesn't mean they did.

Superman has flown on Earth at near light speed...a bit behind Flash who basically states he is running faster than light speed. And that still doesn't change the fact that Superman has still moved faster on Earth than any Z fighter has ever shown...Be it below light speed or not.

Um using people saying they can't fight Flash is kinda wrong. Flash is the fastest person in DC so of course Wonder Woman, Superman, and Prime are going to be slower. Zoom if I remember is always ahead in the time stream so he's going to be hard to actually beat in h2h also.

Except said blasts that attack aren't light speed, Superman has effortlessly while not paying attention caught multiple machine gun fire from different directions, and Superman has done everything Gokou has done to a higher degree. Going to France and back without even being noticed to move > anything Gokou can hope to accomplish. Gokou can create after images of himself, and disappear in bursts of speed in a small general area but he can't do the same thing and move around the Earth. Superman has proven he has the reflexes on par with his speed. The fact he doesn't destroy anything by moving so fast he doesn't seem to move yet going through buildings proves it.

Superman doesn't use the speed he has in most fights. Just because he doesn't use it doesn't mean he can't when he's shown the reflexes to match his speed.

Um Flash said himself that Superman got there first because he was closer, and that while Superman isn't faster than him he's close. He also went mach 9 to try and hit Amazo never said he went faster or slower than it took to get there, and he didn't nearly kill Amazo because Amazo dodged using super speed. He still said the battle took a second, and that Superman is almost as fast as him, and that in 3/10ths of a second that it took him to get down there Superman had already fought and was loosing by being hit with red sun energy.

Flash even says that Superman was unable to counter super speed retaliation. Flash had also stolen all of Amazo's speed by the time the JLA got there so they are going to be able to see him. Flash even said that they JLA would be dead before they knew what was happening if he didn't stop Amazo.

Because Freeza knew he could survive in space while Gokou couldn't. Doesn't mean he can fight or fly ftl. There is no instances of that at all. Everytime they fly anywhere it always takes time that if they were ftl would be instant.

And he was talking about when he was still a teenager....Before he had learned to.

Pan can't move halfway around the planet, and back without even looking like she didn't move..much less while also getting something and bringing it back. I never said Z fighters are slower than sound ever. I have said moving faster than somebody can see doesn't prove anything since street levels have.

The difference is..I never said anything about Superman fighting.

I'm talking about every single time they fight in front of humans without any powers the blasts are seen.

I'm in denial? Even though every tournament the blasts are seen easily.

I don't know because Gokou goes to Kami's Lookout then they say they are leaving, then the Cell games are said to start in five minutes, and they get there right before they start. Also the blast wasn't moving fast because Mr. Satan could tell what was happening, and so could Dende. The small blast Buu shot moved faster than the large one.

Was Superman doing something else at said time? And how long ago was it? Because Superman wasn't much faster than sound at one point post-crisis.

There have been multiple instances where Superman has done something proving he has the reflexes to match his speed. Just because he doesn't always fight using super speed doesn't mean he doesn't have reflexes to. Besides he always starts off a fight with a bullrush half the time. That would hit plenty of people slower than him, and hurt plenty of people not invincible.

Im going to say it like this kento, until you provide me some proof that superman can fight on levels like this then me and your argument is done. You can use all that space flight crap all you want and him flying to paris, etc.... Show me some proof like Im providing you some combat proof of goku dodging/punching at amazing speed or just stop posting. Youre second guessing, making a character out of something that he isnt. Hoping like a lot of other people on this forum that superman could be a threat to goku but fall to bricks, etc.. and then you throw it off as PIS when superman get killed/humiliated by bricks.

Show me the goku getting handled by bricks, so me superman fighting like this or just give up. I dont care if superman went to get some apple jacks from saturn. I dont care if superman was thirsty and decided to fly somewhere to get anything. That dont have a thing to do with combat speed. Quicksilver ran from genosha which is on another side of the planet to new york in seconds but goku would crush him because quicksilver hasnt dont anything to make me suggest that hes on goku level just like superman.

Now Im going to put up 4 fights. Show me superman doing something against a speedster also just like the z fighter are or just give up and stop adding on abilities that superman have.

and maybe you need to relook at this fight because picollo and android destroy a damn island by physical punching each other and then they made a volcano erupt. The strength in this fight alone make me think that they'll be the second being to break superman jaw with a punch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIPn13LaeBk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X650fsJ9Lis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dihpxerEQuE

If you dont look at any of the fights (even though I would love for you to look at them) I want you to show me superman, hell you can use superman prime fighting like this. This is the main fight that I want you too look at.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu164Dlz81Q&feature=related

Out of all of these scans you wont find nothing of superman to even make you suggest that he fight like this. You dont have nothing but him flying to this and this area which is ridiculous. Convince me, show me something of superman because your arguments are lacking.

Originally posted by carver9
Im going to say it like this kento, until you provide me some proof that superman can fight on levels like this then me and your argument is done. You can use all that space flight crap all you want and him flying to paris, etc.... Show me some proof like Im providing you some combat proof of goku dodging/punching at amazing speed or just stop posting. Youre second guessing, making a character out of something that he isnt. Hoping like a lot of other people on this forum that superman could be a threat to goku but fall to bricks, etc.. and then you throw it off as PIS when superman get killed/humiliated by bricks.

Show me the goku getting handled by bricks, so me superman fighting like this or just give up. I dont care if superman went to get some apple jacks from saturn. I dont care if superman was thirsty and decided to fly somewhere to get anything. That dont have a thing to do with combat speed. Quicksilver ran from genosha which is on another side of the planet to new york in seconds but goku would crush him because quicksilver hasnt dont anything to make me suggest that hes on goku level just like superman.

Now Im going to put up 4 fights. Show me superman doing something against a speedster also just like the z fighter are or just give up and stop adding on abilities that superman have.

and maybe you need to relook at this fight because picollo and android destroy a damn island by physical punching each other and then they made a volcano erupt. The strength in this fight alone make me think that they'll be the second being to break superman jaw with a punch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIPn13LaeBk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X650fsJ9Lis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dihpxerEQuE

If you dont look at any of the fights (even though I would love for you to look at them) I want you to show me superman, hell you can use superman prime fighting like this. This is the main fight that I want you too look at.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu164Dlz81Q&feature=related

Out of all of these scans you wont find nothing of superman to even make you suggest that he fight like this. You dont have nothing but him flying to this and this area which is ridiculous. Convince me, show me something of superman because your arguments are lacking.

Gokou hasn't done anything to put him on Superman's level speed. Your point? Get off the fighting speed when I'm talking about being able to move faster than anything Gokou can do.

I read the Piccolo/17 fight when I posted the images proving 17 has unlimited energy...I had to find that part and I didn't know it was at the end. Destroying a small island isn't exactly impressive compared to top tiers in DC or Marvel.

You want me to use a comic book to prove they are fighting like something from a anime? You can't since one is stationary images and the other isn't. The only thing to use is the fact Superman has moved faster than people can react, and on Earth moved at near light speed plenty of times. It's been stated as such. Not once is it ever said how fast the Z fighters are fighting but you like to assume they are over light speed and believe what they say if it makes them stronger but unless it's specifically stated by the narrator of a comic you won't believe Superman moving at any type of speed fighting or flying and you won't believe Superman himself.

How many times do I have to tell you...I am not saying anything about Superman fighting just how fast he can move and his reflexes. Why should I try to prove something I'm not even trying to?

When I said fighting like that I wasnt talking about martial arts, Im talking about superman dodging/punching the way I showed you in the scans.

Gokou hasn't done anything to put him on Superman's level speed.

I think that you posted this wrong, superman hasnt done anything to be put anywhere NEAR gokus combat speed.

Get off the fighting speed when I'm talking about being able to move faster than anything Gokou can do.

Im not getting off fighting speed when superman isnt nothing but a brick himself. Isnt this a fight, if blast cant hit goku superman aint doing it. Im going to give you a example of what Im talking about when it comes to combat speed and fighting speed because I truly dont think that you know the difference. Surfers flight speed>>>>Supermans, Superman combat speed>>Surfers. Who would get the first couple of lick, superman, do you want to know why because this isnt a flight contest, its a fight and in a physical fight against the surfer, surfer would lose 10/10 because superman combat speed is just to much for him. Now if you let surfer use his powers then its surfer 8/10, I give superman 2 due to his combat speed. Again, I have asked for this a thousand times, show me a scan of superman blitzing at light speed and it actually saying it. Would you like an example:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7296/hyperspeed11mv.jpg
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/3034/ego067lu.jpg

Now we have learned that gladiator can blitz at light speed, now show me the same for superman.

I read the Piccolo/17 fight when I posted the images proving 17 has unlimited energy...I had to find that part and I didn't know it was at the end. Destroying a small island isn't exactly impressive compared to top tiers in DC or Marvel.

Show me superman most destructive fight because his fight with mantis and kalibak did nothing but destroy a building. His fight with doomsday did nothing but shatter some windows. His fight with darkseid on earth did nothing but shatter a barn. His 1st fight with titus didnt do jack but create a small crater in the ground. His second fight with titus, they fought in a small room. His fight with black adam didnt do nothing but mess up the street. What fight is this with superman that you are referring about.

You want me to use a comic book to prove they are fighting like something from a anime?

Superman combat speed>>>>>naruto. Superman combat speed>>> urameshi, Superman combat speed>>> pyron, but what does this have to do with Superman vs goku. Show me some combat speed that rival or is equal to goku or stop debating goku vs superman when you dont have anything to suggest that he is anywhere near goku in that area.

You can't since one is stationary images and the other isn't.

Flash does it, why cant superman.

The only thing to use is the fact Superman has moved faster than people can react, and on Earth moved at near light speed plenty of times.

Since it has been plenty of times (making up stuff again) it shouldnt be hard for you to show me two instances. I'll be waiting.

Not once is it ever said how fast the Z fighters are fighting

Im using the fact that goku was fighting faster then lightning when he was young and his speed during the vegeta saga>>>>since then. Or I can just bring up him moving so fast that blasts that have made it to the moon in seconds appeared as if it went through his body but he was dodging the entire time. Show me superman dodging hundreds of punches coming at him from speedster, can you show me that.

unless it's specifically stated by the narrator of a comic you won't believe Superman moving at any type of speed fighting or flying and you won't believe Superman himself.

Dragonball dont have a narrator but they do have people commenting on there speed. Goku was moving faster then the eye can as a child. Goku at 17 vs superman at 17, goku would destroy him, just like the adult version would.