I could debunk all of this but I have had this discussion multiple times on here and it never goes well.
It amazes me how short sighted a lot of people are about the financial situation of the average American. Even American citizens who are "well off" often lose sight of this.
I concede. I'm too lazy to bother. Good points though.
Originally posted by chithappens
I could debunk all of this but I have had this discussion multiple times on here and it never goes well.It amazes me how short sighted a lot of people are about the financial situation of the average American. Even American citizens who are "well off" often lose sight of this.
I concede. I'm too lazy to bother. Good points though.
Or, you just really couldn't. You got some good points, but the problem is that you leave out quite a few other good points. It's not just poor against rich. Really, without the rich the poor would be ****ed big time (and vice versa)
do the rich pay more of the total tax revenue of the country? yes
are the rich as adversely affected by their tax contribution? no
see, there are two very different ways of looking at the problem of taxation, one that actually addresses how governments affect people, and one that works as a right wing talking point 🙂
Originally posted by inimalist
do the rich pay more of the total tax revenue of the country? yesare the rich as adversely affected by their tax contribution? no
see, there are two very different ways of looking at the problem of taxation, one that actually addresses how governments affect people, and one that works as a right wing talking point 🙂
When did you become a communist.
There's also to consider, you know, the immense contributions the rich have to society without even paying taxes (employment, buying power, etc.) ... on top of that having to pay more and more taxes.
So yeah, they do more than anyone else and they are still always thought of as the evil corporate bastards trying to rape everyone. Sure, it's just a talking point...rich people aren't real people after all. And oppression by the masses is justified cause...you know...the masses want it.
none of that addresses the fact that tax policies are more damaging in real terms to people who make less money.
its not anti-rich, its simple numbers.
and the rich don't employ people for society, they do it for themselves. The argument can just as easily be made that the upper class require the lower, you can't isolate one or the other.
Originally posted by inimalist
do the rich pay more of the total tax revenue of the country? yesare the rich as adversely affected by their tax contribution? no
see, there are two very different ways of looking at the problem of taxation, one that actually addresses how governments affect people, and one that works as a right wing talking point 🙂
Exactly. It's not a **** the rich thing, but you certainly can not say the rich are affected in the same way.
My issues with taxes is that it should be a flat tax period. I seriously got taxed 25% this summer and no one was willing to explain to me why. I'm not eligible for this or that, so I couldn't give a serious appeal. I don't own much of anything yet so I was just taking it to the gut.
There are solid, valid counter points to everything Dauddmeon said. Long story short, I'm just saying that the richer folks are not all that concerned about healthcare, education, the housing crunch, etc. They will be good on those issues no matter what happens in the election.
The money flows both ways but there is a problem with the econmoic system itself anyway and the way the government plays with the money of it's citizens.
Originally posted by inimalistNo, it doesn't. But seeing as they benefit similarly to rich people, I'd say they should take some hardship in order for the rich ACTUALLY paying everything for them.
none of that addresses the fact that tax policies are more damaging in real terms to people who make less money.its not anti-rich, its simple numbers.
and the rich don't employ people for society, they do it for themselves. The argument can just as easily be made that the upper class require the lower, you can't isolate one or the other.
And to be fair, there are way more people that can drive a truck somewhere than people that can invent google and continue to.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No, it doesn't. But seeing as they benefit similarly to rich people, I'd say they should take some hardship in order for the rich ACTUALLY paying everything for them.And to be fair, there are way more people that can drive a truck somewhere than people that can invent google and continue to.
lol
you know I agree with you on an ideological level
I'm more on a "how do we balance a budget and develop an government financing system from the bloated and corrupt one we have" kick.
The poor should pay their fair share, but huge government needs to be paid until it is cut. The poor and middle class are going to be hugely affected by this, whereas the rich only inconvenienced. I don't think its right, it just ensures more people are going to be spending more money in the economy and be less dependent on government until a rational budget could be implemented.
Originally posted by inimalistWell, I agree with you that it would be better morally to rob the rich more than the poor, but I think ultimately everyone paying their fair share (maybe even with some minimum cut of point, which basically means the poor get taxed much less) is desirable.
lolyou know I agree with you on an ideological level
I'm more on a "how do we balance a budget and develop an government financing system from the bloated and corrupt one we have" kick.
The poor should pay their fair share, but huge government needs to be paid until it is cut. The poor and middle class are going to be hugely affected by this, whereas the rich only inconvenienced. I don't think its right, it just ensures more people are going to be spending more money in the economy and be less dependent on government until a rational budget could be implemented.
And the horrible hate for the rich that chit portrayed (and many others do), is just despicable and unfair.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I agree with you that it would be better morally to rob the rich more than the poor, but I think ultimately everyone paying their fair share (maybe even with some minimum cut of point, which basically means the poor get taxed much less) is desirable.And the horrible hate for the rich that chit portrayed (and many others do), is just despicable and unfair.
I agree with that 100%
EDIT: not the chit remark really, at least in his reply to what I said it didn't seem like he was unduely accuesing the rich of anything
Originally posted by Bardock42
And the horrible hate for the rich that chit portrayed (and many others do), is just despicable and unfair.
Speaking frankly does not equate to hate.
I hardly see how you saw that. I said it does not hurt the rich. I fail to see how you can say the rich get a stick in the buttocks as much as the middle class.
And I already said the root issue is spending. I guess having previously been someone who lived in neighborhoods where you seriously eat scraps and barely make it month to month affects the way I articulate what I say, but there was no hate in what I said.
It's a fact that the rich are not affected by the current economic conditions as the average citizen. Period. There is no getting around that. Those not living in cities are even more screwed because they are even more forgotten.
Originally posted by inimalistHow about, eradicate money.
lolyou know I agree with you on an ideological level
I'm more on a "how do we balance a budget and develop an government financing system from the bloated and corrupt one we have" kick.
The poor should pay their fair share, but huge government needs to be paid until it is cut. The poor and middle class are going to be hugely affected by this, whereas the rich only inconvenienced. I don't think its right, it just ensures more people are going to be spending more money in the economy and be less dependent on government until a rational budget could be implemented.
Originally posted by chithappens
It is the fact that the people under the 5% are getting screwed.We are bailing out some of the rich who screwed up in the first place.
Regardless of all the bitching the top percentage does, they are not being hurt.
Those sounded very negative to me. I reread now though, and realize it wasn't your point. But I think you can see that there is a lot of jealousy and hate for the better off, I am sorry though that I connected you to that, we are really on the same page.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Those sounded very negative to me. I reread now though, and realize it wasn't your point. But I think you can see that there is a lot of jealousy and hate for the better off, I am sorry though that I connected you to that, we are really on the same page.
I suppose so. I don't mean to say screw the rich but if we have a system that has benefits both ways, I will have no qualms. Everyone pays the same share and has the same opportunities for blah blah blah.
I saw education get cut over and over recently. I am about to become a middle school English teacher (in public school 😱 ) so it's bit concerning. I have been told I shouldn't bother with public schools for various reasons (bad ass kids, no funding or materials, etc.) and I should go to private schools because they have EVERYTHING I need.
I saw healthcare really screw up my grandfather's insurance (changing his "status" after he had surgery so he had to pay out of pocket...). My mother's retirement fund had been looking weird before the "crisis" and that's getting worse every day it seems. I had to help her with the mortgage right as this happened (so I've actually had some hands-on look at what's been happening).
So on and so on.
This stuff affects my everyday life. So excuse my tone, but yeah, I am pissed off because it shouldn't be like that. In a country, that calls itself the "best in the world" and "wealthiest", this sort of stuff should not happen. And believe me, my family is way better off than we used to be.
I lived in those stereotypical ghettos that mainstream rap makes money off of. That stuff is nothing nice. I hate it for them. I really wonder what poor whites who work as miners or factory workers in the north are thinking right now. They have fewer options than those in the city.
I'm just saying, there is a lot of smoke and mirrors that never get exposed and the first issue is how the money is received. The second is how is the money spent.
It's like I'm making my response to Dauddmeon is increments. 😂