United States Presidential Election 2008 - Official Discussion Thread

Started by xmarksthespot143 pages

Originally posted by chithappens
That's not always true. A lot of people do jobs that are very valuable to society and they aren't paid much.

On the other hand, you got entertainers, athlethes (the hollywood types) just living it up.

Not demonizing, just pointing it out.

I'm not saying that what is being done by a person in their profession is necessarily valuable or not - but that the value society has collectively placed upon a certain profession may be higher or lower, and thus determines their ability to earn.

Among others, scientists, teachers and police - I think, subjectively - are grossly underpaid, and ergo undervalued by society, for the work they perform. While other professions are grossly overvalued - e.g. the Hollywood actor or the professional golfer but then they drive industries that the unwashed masses pour money in search of entertainment. They are marketable.

(Also only those few with the innate talent and perserverance will likely get to the point of being a high earner, presumably.)

Originally posted by KidRock
YouTube video

Interesting video.

Before blindly just saying someshit that sounds cute to you, I would suggest investigating why the loans were being asked for in the first place.

Blame can go with both lenders and borrowers, but you are trying to make a very cheap political point.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not saying that what is being done by a person in their profession is necessarily valuable or not - but that the value society has collectively placed upon a certain profession may be higher or lower, and thus determines their ability to earn.

Among others, scientists, teachers and police - I think, subjectively - are grossly underpaid, and ergo undervalued by society, for the work they perform. While other professions are grossly overvalued - e.g. the Hollywood actor or the professional golfer but then they drive industries that the unwashed masses pour money in search of entertainment. They are marketable.

(Also only those few with the innate talent and perserverance will likely get to the point of being a high earner, presumably.)

Yeah, that's kinda because there are a million teachers but like 200 Hollywood stars.

It does kinda make sense, really.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, that's kinda because there are a million teachers but like 200 Hollywood stars.

It does kinda make sense, really.

Oh yeah, wise guy? Then explain Britany Spears, Ashlee Simpson, etc. etc. etc.

HA!

I'm guessing Obama 292 v. McCain 246 (electoral college)

"Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg (see video below) who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and he has an impressive background in his activities as a democrat, but his support for the party seemingly stops when it comes to his trust in Barack Hussein Obama."

Originally posted by KidRock
"Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg (see video below) who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and he has an impressive background in his activities as a democrat, but his support for the party seemingly stops when it comes to his trust in Barack Hussein Obama."

you really wanna go there? Not much different can be said of Mr. McCain. You ****ing idiot.

Originally posted by KidRock
"Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg (see video below) who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and he has an impressive background in his activities as a democrat, but his support for the party seemingly stops when it comes to his trust in Barack Hussein Obama."

Nothing new.

You didn't know that they have been trying to debunk the "he's eligible to be the president" idea for a while now? They're trying to do it to McCain, as well.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

Obama's birth certificate has been available for all to see for some time now, he was born in Hawaii.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

The Oldest person to vote in the US elections (106 years) is a Nun from New Hampshire who lives in Rome.

YouTube video

Who is she voting for?

Obama!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7665925.stm

Interesting though, that even though she doesn't live in the US and has no intentions of returning she still gets the vote...not that I'm against her having it, I think she should, but I'd have thought that there might have been a rule about people who don't live in the country voting for the leadership of that country.

Originally posted by BackFire
Obama's birth certificate has been available for all to see for some time now, he was born in Hawaii.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

Berg and his lawsuit are claiming it's a fake.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Interesting though, that even though she doesn't live in the US and has no intentions of returning she still gets the vote...not that I'm against her having it, I think she should, but I'd have thought that there might have been a rule about people who don't live in the country voting for the leadership of that country.

If the person is a US citizen and a registered voter, that person can vote, regardless of their permanent residency.

Considering the US affects most of the world with its policies/money, have a foreign vote carries its own unique set of insight. Those votes are just as important as any American vote. I'm sure the world appreciates those votes.

I don't need to cite a source for that last statement. The current global financial crisis should be enough evidence that we are all connected by money.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If the person is a US citizen and a registered voter, that person can vote, regardless of their permanent residency.

Considering the US affects most of the world with its policies/money, have a foreign vote carries its own unique set of insight. Those votes are just as important as any American vote. I'm sure the world appreciates those votes.

I don't need to cite a source for that last statement. The current global financial crisis should be enough evidence that we are all connected by money.

I know an American Citizen can vote regardless of where the live?
Isn't that indicated?

The second paragraph you posted does make sense ofcourse however I can still imagine people being a little less than enthusiastic for Americans who don't live in the US getting the vote...

Meh, being a citizen is like being in a club you were randomly assigned to. Who votes is kinda arbitrary either way.

Part of me wants Obama to lose, just to really really really piss off all the democrats that are kicking around.

Though, I don't know if it would be worth it...then again, what harm can McCain do?

everyone who votes are zionists. end of

Originally posted by Deano
everyone who votes are zionists. end of
There are posts by you I like, yet it's very hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like this.

it wasnt meant to be serious old chap

One of Barack Obama's most potent campaign claims is that he'll cut taxes for no less than 95% of "working families." He's even promising to cut taxes enough that the government's tax share of GDP will be no more than 18.2% -- which is lower than it is today.
[Review & Outlook] AP

It's a clever pitch, because it lets him pose as a middle-class tax cutter while disguising that he's also proposing one of the largest tax increases ever on the other 5%. But how does he conjure this miracle, especially since more than a third of all Americans already pay no income taxes at all? There are several sleights of hand, but the most creative is to redefine the meaning of "tax cut."

For the Obama Democrats, a tax cut is no longer letting you keep more of what you earn. In their lexicon, a tax cut includes tens of billions of dollars in government handouts that are disguised by the phrase "tax credit." Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand no fewer than seven such credits for individuals:
[Review & Outlook]

- A $500 tax credit ($1,000 a couple) to "make work pay" that phases out at income of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 per couple.

- A $4,000 tax credit for college tuition.

- A 10% mortgage interest tax credit (on top of the existing mortgage interest deduction and other housing subsidies).

- A "savings" tax credit of 50% up to $1,000.

- An expansion of the earned-income tax credit that would allow single workers to receive as much as $555 a year, up from $175 now, and give these workers up to $1,110 if they are paying child support.

- A child care credit of 50% up to $6,000 of expenses a year.

- A "clean car" tax credit of up to $7,000 on the purchase of certain vehicles.

Here's the political catch. All but the clean car credit would be "refundable," which is Washington-speak for the fact that you can receive these checks even if you have no income-tax liability. In other words, they are an income transfer -- a federal check -- from taxpayers to nontaxpayers. Once upon a time we called this "welfare," or in George McGovern's 1972 campaign a "Demogrant." Mr. Obama's genius is to call it a tax cut.

The Tax Foundation estimates that under the Obama plan 63 million Americans, or 44% of all tax filers, would have no income tax liability and most of those would get a check from the IRS each year. The Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis estimates that by 2011, under the Obama plan, an additional 10 million filers would pay zero taxes while cashing checks from the IRS.

The total annual expenditures on refundable "tax credits" would rise over the next 10 years by $647 billion to $1.054 trillion, according to the Tax Policy Center. This means that the tax-credit welfare state would soon cost four times actual cash welfare. By redefining such income payments as "tax credits," the Obama campaign also redefines them away as a tax share of GDP. Presto, the federal tax burden looks much smaller than it really is.

The political left defends "refundability" on grounds that these payments help to offset the payroll tax. And that was at least plausible when the only major refundable credit was the earned-income tax credit. Taken together, however, these tax credit payments would exceed payroll levies for most low-income workers.

It is also true that John McCain proposes a refundable tax credit -- his $5,000 to help individuals buy health insurance. We've written before that we prefer a tax deduction for individual health care, rather than a credit. But the big difference with Mr. Obama is that Mr. McCain's proposal replaces the tax subsidy for employer-sponsored health insurance that individuals don't now receive if they buy on their own. It merely changes the nature of the tax subsidy; it doesn't create a new one.

There's another catch: Because Mr. Obama's tax credits are phased out as incomes rise, they impose a huge "marginal" tax rate increase on low-income workers. The marginal tax rate refers to the rate on the next dollar of income earned. As the nearby chart illustrates, the marginal rate for millions of low- and middle-income workers would spike as they earn more income.

Some families with an income of $40,000 could lose up to 40 cents in vanishing credits for every additional dollar earned from working overtime or taking a new job. As public policy, this is contradictory. The tax credits are sold in the name of "making work pay," but in practice they can be a disincentive to working harder, especially if you're a lower-income couple getting raises of $1,000 or $2,000 a year. One mystery -- among many -- of the McCain campaign is why it has allowed Mr. Obama's 95% illusion to go unanswered.
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Obama will raise taxes on the rich, while the poor pay no taxes and recieve checks from the government (aka the rich tax payers).

This isnt socialism (closes eyes and covers ears).

havent you broke out of these delusions yet

nothin changes