United States Presidential Election 2008 - Official Discussion Thread

Originally posted by BackFire
Uh, that is absolutely not evidence or an observation of ID. That would simply be part of evolution.

Stomach acid was part of evolution far before we were even humans.

Obviously that protective coating formed before the acid or before the acid became as strong as it currently is.

None of this inherently supports ID, it can all be explained simply through Evolution.

Bottom line - Evolution is science based. ID is not. One should be taught as science, the other should be taught as religion. They aren't equal.

But looking at the statistics, you'd need more faith to believe in the possibility of the big bang and evolution theories forming us and our world than you would of God. It's more of a religion than Christianity!

It's something like 0.0001% chance that the theory of the big bang and the theory of evolution (in their current forms) would've happened and created all of the inter-dependent systems seen in both the world and in human beings.

Side question: how did we develop thoughts, feelings, and dreams? Just sort of slowly..."grew them"...over time?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Heck in CA, the most liberal state of the union, gay marriage was defeated by 61% majority voting against it. (and since the liberal judges decided to overturn our decision, we'll do it again this november)

The proposition is currently (and rightly) named Proposition 8: "Eliminates the Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry." How many people in California, the "most liberal" state, will vote for that, do you think? During a presidential year, no less, when partisan leanings are at their strongest?

"Thoughts" "feelings" and "dreams" are all simply the product of a larger more gyrated and sulcated forebrain.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Um, you're falling into the tried-and-failed argument where Democratic policies automatically equal higher taxes. Nice try though.

and the quote is 25 and 35, not 18 and 40.

No, I'm saying that Obama's proposed taxes of businesses (large and small) will cause them to fire workers, drop workers wages, and the gas/grocery/goods industries will raise prices to compensate for higher taxes against them.

Effectively screwing the middle-americans who aren't supposed to be touched by Obama's tax increase on the rich and big businesses.

And I know, I changed the ages on the quote because I like to give libs a little more time to grow up. 😛

Originally posted by sithsaber408
But looking at the statistics, you'd need more faith to believe in the possibility of the big bang and evolution theories forming us and our world than you would of God. It's more of a religion than Christianity!

It's something like 0.0001% chance that the theory of the big bang and the theory of evolution (in their current forms) would've happened and created all of the inter-dependent systems seen in both the world and in human beings.

Side question: how did we develop thoughts, feelings, and dreams? Just sort of slowly..."grew them"...over time?

So there's a better chance of an invisible man in the sky creating us than Evolution and Big Bang?

It doesn't matter how statistically low our existence may be, it's still science based. It still has evidence and observation. Obviously it's statistically unlikely that everything would work out perfectly to allow us to flourish, hence why there aren't people wandering around on every planet and why we haven't run into alien civilizations. Has nothing to do with the theory being scientifically sound or not. And it doesn't make ID anymore of a scienctific theory, because it's not.

Thoughts and feelings came with consciousness and intelligence. Dreams as well.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
No, I'm saying that Obama's proposed taxes of businesses (large and small) will cause them to fire workers, drop workers wages, and the gas/grocery/goods industries will raise prices to compensate for higher taxes against them.

Effectively screwing the middle-americans who aren't supposed to be touched by Obama's tax increase on the rich and big businesses.

And I know, I changed the ages on the quote because I like to give libs a little more time to grow up. 😛

See: the last 8 years.

Cutting taxes on the middle class and raising taxes on the rich creates surpluses and general prosperity.

See: the 8 years before the previous 8 years.

Originally posted by Strangelove
A recent poll has a slim majority opposing the ban that's on the ballot http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/28/MNOU10U8MB.DTL&tsp=1

The proposition is currently (and rightly) named Proposition 8: "Eliminates the Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry." How many people in California, the "most liberal" state, will vote for that, do you think? During a presidential year, no less, when partisan leanings are at their strongest?

Aye, and in that same article (from the SF paper, no wonder) it says that an LA poll shows 54% are against it.

Plenty. You forget that we already passed it in an election year before when partisan feelings were strong, by 61%. The people who stood outside the local targets and walmarts where I live trying to get signatures to keep the measure off the ballot were pretty scared that it would pass.

What's more, an even more liberal bill that would effectively change the public school systems presentation of homosexuality, bisexuality, transgender, and transvestite lifestyles is also up for vote.

Even in CA, it won't pass. Again, you underestimate the working families.

What does working families have to do with the passing of gay marriage?

And what public school presentation are you speaking of? How do they want it presented?

Working families? What do they have to do with it? Are their lives somehow affected by same-sex marriage? Are their marriages? Only if you're myopic.

A vote for Proposition 8 is a vote against core American values - equality, liberty, and so on and so forth. I would go so far as to say anyone who votes for Prop. 8 is a bigot.

Originally posted by BackFire
How do they want it presented?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I personally support an abortion for rape

wounded1whip

Get back in line Christian!

Haha,

Gay Marriage...who cares, let them marry if they want.

Sometimes the Daily Show is so funny:

On Double Standard

Originally posted by Strangelove
A clear majority of Americans support at least some measure of abortion rights. Both McCain and Palin oppose it almost absolutely.

I don't know where Palin stands on Iraq, but the majority of Americans surely doesn't agree with McCain's stance.

More and more, Americans are showing a clear lean towards the Democratic sides of the issues; gay marriage, true energy independence (not just drill drill drill), universal health care, Social Security, etc, etc.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Um, you're falling into the tried-and-failed argument where Democratic policies automatically equal higher taxes. Nice try though.

and the quote is 25 and 35, not 18 and 40.

Regardless of what anyone thinks, implementing these programs the Democrats want to implement, means a growth of government and a growth of government always means more spending. And even though Obama likes to pander by saying he will actually CUT taxes for 95% of the working families in America, that's mostly bullshit. Someone is going to have to pay for this crap and you can't just play Robin Hood economics to do it.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Actually, tax cuts strain the economy more than tax increases.

See: the last 8 years.

Cutting taxes on the middle class and raising taxes on the rich creates surpluses and general prosperity.

See: the 8 years before the previous 8 years.

Spending was. The spending was insane.

Originally posted by chithappens
Sometimes the Daily Show is so funny:

On Double Standard

Would be fitting.

Someone posted a video of McCain running his mouth about him not agreeing with Bush and then there was a montage with McCain talking left and right abou throwing support behind Bush. Can someone find that for me? (I looked and I couldn't find it.)

Now on topic.

I'm surounded by ignorant close-minded republicans. (Being in Oklahoma and all...) Videos like that from John Stewart make me sooo very happy. I just got done telling my straight-ticket republican neighbor about the lies Sarah Pain spewed about the Obama side...and the stupid "change" rhetoric from the Obama side.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Actually, tax cuts strain the economy more than tax increases.

See: the last 8 years.

Cutting taxes on the middle class and raising taxes on the rich creates surpluses and general prosperity.

See: the 8 years before the previous 8 years.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Haha.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You are laughing at him, right? Not with him, right? Right?

Originally posted by lord xyz
I'm just laughing because it makes fun of Bush, which is the general reason why most people laugh: it makes fun of something they hate.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I'm just laughing because it makes fun of Bush, which is the general reason why most people laugh: it makes fun of something they hate.

So if I said...George Bush, I hope you dad shoots your mum 14 times then leaves her to die in a well, then kills your brother and rapes your wife....

you would laugh?