Originally posted by ShakyamunisonWhat debate were you watching, she clearly dodged the question multiple times - which I don't necessarily consider uncommon among politicians, but she frankly just isn't good enough at it to get away with it.
As far as a non-answer from Palin: the only time that I noticed that she did not answer was the "what is your weakness question", and Biden did not answer that question also. I don't think that was a good question because no politician would answer it. I think there were times when both candidates wanted to talk about a previous question instead of the one asked, but I think that Biden was smoother at redirecting the answer then was Palin.Which one would I prefer? I'm sorry, but that will take me probably a week or so to come to an answer. I need to chant about it.
She didn't fall flat on her face and she hasn't sunk her ticket; but if that's the best comment one can make of her performance then that's not good either.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What debate were you watching, she clearly dodged the question multiple times - which I don't necessarily consider uncommon among politicians, but she frankly just isn't good enough at it to get away with it.
She didn't answer a single ****ing question. She distracted and she non-answered by rote. She distracted every answer to the point of banality.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What debate were you watching, she clearly dodged the question multiple times - which I don't necessarily consider uncommon among politicians, but she frankly just isn't good enough at it to get away with it.She didn't fall flat on her face and she hasn't sunk her ticket; but if that's the best comment one can make of her performance then that's not good either.
I was watching the one on TV. One was a new politicians, and the other was an old politicians. If you want to take points away from the new politicians for not being as smooth as the old politicians, go for it. I on the other hand, took that into account, just like I did on the last debate when Obama was making noises into the mic; just lack of experience.
Some notes I made during the course of the Vice Presidential Debate:
I thought it was hilarious in the beginning when Palin came out and made the ice breaker to Biden saying, "Can I call you Joe?"
Anyways, my initial impression of Joe Biden and Sarah Palin: Palin seemed to start off very nervous and shaky, almost unsure of what she was saying. Biden seemed relaxed, maybe even a bit reserved, but definitely assertive at the same time.
Palin had a good quote about Americans needing to basically learn not to live beyond their means. I wish they would. I wish government would as well.
She definitely did not look good avoiding the issue of John McCain and deregulation that Joe Biden brought up multiple times and instead, jumped over to the issue of taxes. She tried to recover by talking about McCain regulation with regards to Tabacco Industries and so forth. I don't think it was good enough though.
So Biden...it is fair to tax people that are successful simply because they can afford to be taxed more and they need to come in and save those that live beyond their means in the lower and middle class? I don't think so. I disagree fundamentally with that mentality. Tax breaks for the middle class are fine. Although, I don't know if they are even possible right now.
Palin seems to get more comfortable as the debate moves along though, I guess getting her feet wet so to speak.
Biden said with regards to cutting promises due to the financial crisis, that he would probably cut the doubled foreign assistance. Um. Why would you have doubled it anyways? You talk about spending at home and the 10 billion a day in Iraq, but want to double our foreign assistance?
I actually liked Palin's answer to the promises question. I know I heard some saying they felt unnerved when Palin said, "I've only been at this five weeks." But what I thought she meant was that I've been the Vice President for five weeks, I haven't been making that many promises in that time span as opposed to the Presidential Candidates in Obama and McCain that have been at it for almost two years really.
Biden did well bringing up Palin and the windfall taxes in Alasaka and hoping that she could get John McCain to support such a measure.
I know there were questions about the objectivity of the moderator. I feel she was very objective in the debate and did a better job as moderator than the one in the Presidential Debates because she didn't try to get them to fight each other or whatever.
Palin had a smart tactic: She kept coming back to her strength of energy and energy independence. Some may not like that though because she avoided some questions here and there. But hey, stick to your stratagey and what works for you. Speaking of energy, I very much liked Palin's answer on Climate Change. It seemed neutral and very fair assessment. Whereas Biden pissed me off saying that it was basically a fact that Climate Change is completely brought on by man.
I know some CNN pundits didn't like that Palin talked about same sex couples getting the same benefits as heterosexual couples, maybe irritating the evangelical sector of the Republican Party. But I thought she was very sincere and honest and not sticking to her robotic rhetoric that she used elsewhere in the debate (mainly on Iraq, that was the only issue where I think she sounded like someone was feeding her the information. That's to be expected though because foreign policy isn't her strong point).
Biden did good on the exit stratagey, whereas Palin seemed to kind of brush it off and go into the stupid 'white flag of surrender' hogwash.
Democrats keep bringing up that we spend 10 billion dollars a month in Iraq. Sure. I don't disagree with that and I'd love for that to stop. But if anyone thinks that is going to stop within the four year term limit of a Senator Obama and Senator Biden Administration, I think they are wrong.
Like I said, Palin definitely seemed uncomfortable and not nearly as charismatic on the Iraq issue. Although, she did seem to be more assertive and direct and dare I say, confident on the Afghanistan issue somehow.
In the Presidential Debates, I thought Obama kicked McCain's ass on the Iraq issue and likewise, I think Biden kicked McCain's ass again on the issue of Iraq. More specifically the words McCain used of it being 'easy' and 'quick' and 'being greeted as liberators from the Iraqi people'.
I'm glad Palin seemed to be more direct than McCain was in advocating diplomacy. I also liked her answer on the Bush administration saying that of course it committed some major blunders, but all administrations do in some capacity. And that for the party that keeps labeling itself the party of change, they keep going back to the past and finger poking at the Bush administration. But Biden keeping up with Palin, had a great comeback when he said, "The past is the prologue." Helluva quote there.
Biden is an interventionist. Obama is an interventionist. Palin is an interventionist. McCain is an interventionist. Bush is an interventionist. Democrats are interventionists. Republicans are interventionists. The United States has an interventionist foreign policy. That will never change regardless of what political party is in office. Even if they have a fundamental disagreement on Iraq.
Palin kinda stuck it to Biden on the vote for Iraq. I recall seeing quotes where Biden talks about going into Iraq to get WMD's and so forth.
I don't agree with either candidate on the issue of Darfur. We do not have the resources to go into Darfur due to our domestic issues and even our foreign issues considering the problems in Afghanistan and the issue in Iraq. And even if we did have all the resources domestic and foreign, I still wouldn't support a military intervention and a monetary intervention.
On the question of what Joe Biden would be like if God forbid Senator Obama was killed or unable to take the office of Presidency, Biden had a great answer (I can't remember what it was).
Biden kept going back to Bush and Palin had another laugh out loud moment for me when she said, "Say it ain't so Joe." And soon after, another laugh out loud moment when she said something about a third grade class getting extra credit for watching the debate.
Biden is definitely correct on Dick Cheney being dangerous and probably the most destructive Vice President in the history of the United States of America.
Joe had a great personal narrative on Average Joe and so forth, even getting choked up (and maybe a bit resentful) at one point. And Biden's closing statement was probably better, although my dad was talking to me during Palin's and I missed a bit of hers.
Obviously, Biden did well in the debate. That's expected. What was unsure was how Palin would do. She had low expectations going in and I think she obviously met the bar on those low expectations and then far surpassed them and from all reports and accounts, may have re-energized her Republican base and maybe erased all memory of past blemishes. However, much like the Presidential Debate, neither side really hit a homerun and of course, this debate probably won't be dynamic in terms of deciding key battleground states and swaying too many people. That's better left to the meal ticket candidates in Obama and McCain.
Much like the Presidential Debate, like I said, neither hit a homerun and I'm therefore torn as to who may have won the debate, if I had to pick a winner. Like I said in the Presidential debate, it was a foreign policy debate (primarily) and McCain being the (supposed) expert on foreign policy and Obama being the (supposed) inexperienced and naive one on foreign policy, you'd expect McCain to dominate and he didn't and that was the reason I gave Obama the win. And here, it was expected (from what I heard) that Biden was going to destroy Palin due to the past interviews in the week she gave. Well considering I don't think Biden did, I'm impressed by Palin. But I'm not sure if that is enough for me to say she won. She dodged a lot of questions and seemed plain unknowledgeable on key foreign policy issues, unlike Biden who didn't. But in other places, I felt Palin did really well. So I'm not too sure.
So I'll go with a tie.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was watching the one on TV. One was a new politicians, and the other was an old politicians. If you want to take points away from the new politicians for not being as smooth as the old politicians, go for it. I on the other hand, took that into account, just like I did on the last debate when Obama was making noises into the mic; just lack of experience.
I don't consider answering the actual questions asked of you 'smooth'.
Originally posted by BigRed
Much like the Presidential Debate, like I said, neither hit a homerun and I'm therefore torn as to who may have won the debate, if I had to pick a winner. Like I said in the Presidential debate, it was a foreign policy debate (primarily) and McCain being the (supposed) expert on foreign policy and Obama being the (supposed) inexperienced and naive one on foreign policy, you'd expect McCain to dominate and he didn't and that was the reason I gave Obama the win. And here, it was expected (from what I heard) that Biden was going to destroy Palin due to the past interviews in the week she gave. Well considering I don't think Biden did, I'm impressed by Palin. But I'm not sure if that is enough for me to say she won. She dodged a lot of questions and seemed plain unknowledgeable on key foreign policy issues, unlike Biden who didn't. But in other places, I felt Palin did really well. So I'm not too sure.So I'll go with a tie.
Neither one won. It wasn't even a debate, they just took turns answering questions. It was more of plugging their presidential candidates than addressing the points.
For these next two, they should just let Obama and McCain go at it and the moderator only breaks it up when it gets out-of-hand. Like a boxing match.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Neither one won. It wasn't even a debate, they just took turns answering questions. It was more of plugging their presidential candidates than addressing the points.For these next two, they should just let Obama and McCain go at it and the moderator only breaks it up when it gets out-of-hand. Like a boxing match.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What are you talking about? The only question was a stupid rhetorical one.
I'm talking about the fact that she failed to answer questions in a valid manner several times.
The question was about healthcare, she answered about energy. The question was about Iraq, she answered about taxes. Keep up, please.
That's not a matter of a politician being a politician, or being 'smooth', that's just doing what you're supposed to do in a debate. If the moderator asks you a question about healthcare, your answer should have to do with healthcare.
Originally posted by BigRed
Technically that's what they are supposed to do is be propaganda machines for their candidates. The matter comes down to who did the better job selling their guy.
Did you see how the journalists attempt to break it down afterwards, in a "review"? It reminds me of how commentators analyze sports games afterwards, but a lot more biased. Even in hindsight, they can't put their leanings aside.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Neither one won. It wasn't even a debate, they just took turns answering questions. It was more of plugging their presidential candidates than addressing the points.For these next two, they should just let Obama and McCain go at it and the moderator only breaks it up when it gets out-of-hand. Like a boxing match.
I agree that this moderator should have STFU and allowed them to answer and respond. But the answeres that were proposed don't lend themshelves to any actual understanding or position. Sarah Palin didn't answer a single question posed to her, she distracted. I notice the numbers, even through the toilet paper I taped over the reaction polls that were scrolled across the bottom of the screen, were ineffectual; they reflected that Mr. Biden did better. Palin bullshitted her way through the debate. She had lots of rote answers, but nothing that exemplified how smart she is on her feet.
Originally posted by BackFire
I'm talking about the fact that she failed to answer questions in a valid manner several times.
That is your opinion, but not mine.
Originally posted by BackFire
The question was about healthcare, she answered about energy. The question was about Iraq, she answered about taxes. Keep up, please.
Don’t be insulting. They both wanted to answer previous questions instead of the one being asked. It seems like I wrote that before.
Originally posted by BackFire
That's not a matter of a politician being a politician, or being 'smooth', that's just doing what you're supposed to do in a debate. If the moderator asks you a question about healthcare, your answer should have to do with healthcare.
Again, that is your opinion and not typical of what I have seen in debates.
Do I have to agree with you?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is your opinion, but not mine.
So answering a question on healthcare by talking about something totally and factually irrelevant is a valid response? Time to learn the meaning of the words, I think.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Don’t be insulting. They both wanted to answer previous questions instead of the one being asked. It seems like I wrote that before.
I'm not being insulting, you didn't seem to get what I was talking about. Biden answered previous questions AND still answered the question that had just been posed. Palin would simply talk about something else and completely ignore the current question. Again, not valid answers based on what he words mean. Healthcare doesn't mean 'energy'. Healthcare means healthcare.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Again, that is your opinion and not typical of what I have seen in debates.Do I have to agree with you?
Then you don't know what a debate is actually supposed to be if you think it's valid to respond with things that have no relevance to what was asked.
No, you don't have to agree, you're free to be wrong if you wish.
Originally posted by Quiero MotaI only caught maybe the 2nd half of the debate, but in that time Biden only mentioned Obama a couple times, whereas all Palin really did was talk about how great McCain was while giving no real proof of her own abilities.
Neither one won. It wasn't even a debate, they just took turns answering questions. It was more of plugging their presidential candidates than addressing the points.For these next two, they should just let Obama and McCain go at it and the moderator only breaks it up when it gets out-of-hand. Like a boxing match.