Originally posted by Elite HunterBecause Maul, when down to one blade, was on the verge of losing the saber battle against Obi Wan. It was the force shove that saved him.
No that Qui-gon would win.
Qui Gon, a far superior swordsman than Obi Wan, surely would have beaten Maul if Maul stood his ground fighting with one blade.
On Tattooine, Qui Gon was taken by surprise. Also, as far as him being "out of breath" after he leapt aboard Padme's ship, he had, after all, just made a giant force leap.
Maul knew he had to seperate Master from Padawan. This is why he fought a retreating battle. Maul knew that, once he pimpkicked Obi Wan to the lower platform, that he had to get Jinn to an isolated place where he could dispatch him. He knew that Jinn would run out of steam. This is why he retreated down the hall with the laser gates, because he knew what the hall ended into, and that Obi Wan would not be able to get there in time to join his master.
He figured that once Jinn was gone, the Padawan would be easy. He figured wrong.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Because Maul, when down to one blade, was on the verge of losing the saber battle against Obi Wan. It was the force shove that saved him.Qui Gon, a far superior swordsman than Obi Wan, surely would have beaten Maul if Maul stood his ground fighting with one blade.
On Tattooine, Qui Gon was taken by surprise. Also, as far as him being "out of breath" after he leapt aboard Padme's ship, he had, after all, just made a giant force leap.
Maul knew he had to seperate Master from Padawan. This is why he fought a retreating battle. Maul knew that, once he pimpkicked Obi Wan to the lower platform, that he had to get Jinn to an isolated place where he could dispatch him. He knew that Jinn would run out of steam. This is why he retreated down the hall with the laser gates, because he knew what the hall ended into, and that Obi Wan would not be able to get there in time to join his master.
He figured that once Jinn was gone, the Padawan would be easy. He figured wrong.
Excuse me?
1. Maul showed no difficulty in his fight against Obi-Wan. If your talking about how he got kicked, well so did Obi-Wan. He wasnt on the verge of losing anything that Obi-Wan wasnt also on the verge of losing in that case.
2. If Qui-Gon Jinn was a far superior swordsman over Obi-Wan, considering how even the fight between Obi-Wan and Maul was, shouldnt Qui-Gon Jinn have defeated Maul on Tatooine and not the other way around (When Maul was only using one blade).
3. Darth Maul did not intentionally seperate the two. It just happened that in the heat of the fight, they got seperated and it worked in the advantage of Maul. He did not figure anything other than that he would win in the end, unless you can somehow read his mind trough the screen.
4. I advice you to see the fight again. You will see that Darth Maul was just getting in a lucky kick when he succeeded at seperating the two. Then again, of course he wanted to seperate them. If he could hold his own against two, then why not fight one and make the process quicker. I do not think he did a prioritize with master before apprentice. It's not like he would jump down after Qui-Gon if he was the one that got kicked down. If Qui-Gon would have bared his defense before Obi-Wan, I'm quite certain he'd be the one to recieve the kick.
If you can, please prove me wrong. Perhaps it's just me who have gotten a completely wrong picture of the fight.
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryRight before the force push, when they lock blades, Obi Wan is clearly at an advantage. Maul was backed against the laser gate with nowhere to jump to, this is why he force pushed Obi Wan away.
Excuse me?1. Maul showed no difficulty in his fight against Obi-Wan. If your talking about how he got kicked, well so did Obi-Wan. He wasnt on the verge of losing anything that Obi-Wan wasnt also on the verge of losing in that case.
2. If Qui-Gon Jinn was a far superior swordsman over Obi-Wan, considering how even the fight between Obi-Wan and Maul was, shouldnt Qui-Gon Jinn have defeated Maul on Tatooine and not the other way around (When Maul was only using one blade).Jinn was fighting defensively on Tattooine, he was pretty much on even ground with Maul as he escaped.
3. Darth Maul did not intentionally seperate the two. It just happened that in the heat of the fight, they got seperated and it worked in the advantage of Maul. He did not figure anything other than that he would win in the end, unless you can somehow read his mind trough the screen.It's just how I saw it, he is retreating retreating retreating then BAM he has Qui Gon one on one. Too coincidental for me.
4. I advice you to see the fight again. You will see that Darth Maul was just getting in a lucky kick when he succeeded at seperating the two. Then again, of course he wanted to seperate them. If he could hold his own against two, then why not fight one and make the process quicker. I do not think he did a prioritize with master before apprentice. It's not like he would jump down after Qui-Gon if he was the one that got kicked down. If Qui-Gon would have bared his defense before Obi-Wan, I'm quite certain he'd be the one to recieve the kick.Lucky kick? The kick he landed on Jinn was a lucky kick. The kick he landed on Obi Wan was not. He locked Obi Wan's saber away from him and kicked him down, it was a well placed strategical move, not luck.
If you can, please prove me wrong. Perhaps it's just me who have gotten a completely wrong picture of the fight. [/B]I am not gonna get into a whole "prove me wrong" thing here, I am merely stating that this is how I saw the fight. There are many ways to see this fight, this just happens to be mine.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Right before the force push, when they lock blades, Obi Wan is clearly at an advantage. Maul was backed against the laser gate with nowhere to jump to, this is why he force pushed Obi Wan away.
Darth Maul backed, yes, but the clash of blades was shown in Maul's advantage. He was the one overpowering Obi-Wan there. Watch it again, and you'll see that even before the force push did Darth Maul send Obi-Wan backwards. The force push was what Maul hoped to be the killing blow. Just because he used the force push, doesnt mean he used it as a last resort. It was a strategical move to send him flying there. For all we know, he wanted Obi-Wan to fight him at that position. He may intentionally have backed up to the laser gate, to make sure Obi-Wan would fly into the hole.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Jinn was fighting defensively on Tattooine, he was pretty much on even ground with Maul as he escaped.
Jinn may have played defensive, but Maul was holding back as well. Obviously, considering he was only using one blade.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's just how I saw it, he is retreating retreating retreating then BAM he has Qui Gon one on one. Too coincidental for me.
Not saying how you see on it is wrong. I guess we look at the fight in different ways, that's all. From how I see the fight, defense is very often a good offense. I do not think his original intentions was to seperate the two. I think what he wanted was to go on defense all until some advantage occured that he could take advantage of. Because we all know that Darth Maul is very good when it comes to strategy. In the beginning of the fight, he was not having a full hand of cards. He would have to wait for the "cards" to come to him and then play them out. I believe his reason to play defensive was so that eventually the surroundings would come to his advantage, or one of the two would fault in one way or the other.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Lucky kick? The kick he landed on Jinn was a lucky kick. The kick he landed on Obi Wan was not. He locked Obi Wan's saber away from him and kicked him down, it was a well placed strategical move, not luck.
It was a skillful kick that had more to do with skill than luck, yes, but the kick was also based on who would leave such an opening. Had Qui-Gon gotten his blade locked, I'm certain it would have been him who would have been sent flying.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Because Maul, when down to one blade, was on the verge of losing the saber battle against Obi Wan. It was the force shove that saved him.
Wrong, two different sources TPM novel and "Jedi vs sith" say that while it may have looked like Obiwan was winning it wasn't the case. Slowly Obiwan was losing physical strength and Maulw as gaining it. The latter source even comes from Obiwan himself so you lose there as there is no contradiction to the movies since we can't see how they are feeling or thinking. As you yourself admit later down.
And really Obiwan got the jump originally cause he was using the darkside. Also to worth note is that Maul the fact wasn't even a 100% in either fight with the jedi as the TPM Journal😄arth Maul says.
Qui Gon, a far superior swordsman than Obi Wan, surely would have beaten Maul if Maul stood his ground fighting with one blade.
3. Darth Maul did not intentionally seperate the two. It just happened that in the heat of the fight, they got seperated and it worked in the advantage of Maul. He did not figure anything other than that he would win in the end, unless you can somehow read his mind trough the screen.
The three combatants fought their way across the hangar floor, lightsabers flashing, bringing to bear every skill they had acquired over the years. The Jedi Knights tried continually to press the attack, and indeed, the Sith Lord was moving away from the Naboo and the starfighters and back toward the hangar's far wall. But Qui-Gon recognized that while it might seem as if the Jedi were driving him before them, it was the Sith Lord who was controlling the struggle,
As you can see Maul knew what he was doing and it was not luck.
You might want to know that although the TPM novel outright says that Obi-Wan was not Qui-Gon's equal yet, he is also stated later on to be quicker (in a very similar statement), and he had the advantage of pure vigor, youth, physical strength, and, in addition, had the powerful boost the dark side gave him, which enabled him to go toe-to-toe with Maul and get the upper hand at least once. Qui-Gon never fought quite as well in TPM as Obi-Wan did in his last fight against Maul.
Originally posted by Elite HunterYes I know, but the SW sections I have visited on KMC on a regular basis in the past have a strict policy on this:
Erm, everything we said is canon material from the EU and the movie.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=441810&pagenumber=1#post8394386
I just want to be sure of the rules here, this is a new area for me, something I only started posting in a short while ago, and I dont want to cause any waves. Canon or non Canon, makes no difference to me which, I just want to know. It doesnt say anything in the forum rules, but still, you know?
Originally posted by Master CrimzonIt's kinda hard to say, with Maul retreating the way he was, by the time Jinn was in a position to go toe to toe with him, he was visibly tired. Didn't TPM novelization mention something to this effect?
You might want to know that although the TPM novel outright says that Obi-Wan was not Qui-Gon's equal yet, he is also stated later on to be quicker (in a very similar statement), and he had the advantage of pure vigor, youth, physical strength, and, in addition, had the powerful boost the dark side gave him, which enabled him to go toe-to-toe with Maul and get the upper hand at least once. Qui-Gon never fought quite as well in TPM as Obi-Wan did in his last fight against Maul.