Originally posted by Galan007
what i'm saying is that the movie painted an entirely different picture of gg, than the one you've explained from the novel. as far as what we actually saw in the movie, gg was only a notch or two above pathetic. he certinly had been downgraded since the CW series [after mace's crush maneuver]. remember i'm only speaking from the movie's portrayal.
Even within the movie, Grievous was depicted was striking at incredible speeds; and what makes him only a notch or two above pathetic? The fact that he lost to Obi-Wan? Remember, the EXACT same thing happens in the novel, only with more commentary. There's nothing in the movie that contradicts this, and therefore, the commentary about him in the RotS novel is canonical.
And how, exactly, did he get a dramatic downgrade since the CW series? He beat numerous Jedi at once, true, but the fact that he lost to one Jedi who had the best style to utilize against him does not make him weaker.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
The fact that Grievous lost to Obi-Wan doesn't make him a worthless loser; Obi-Wan's style, as said by Mace Windu in the RotS novelization, was said to be the ideal style to utilize against Grievous, indeed, making Obi-Wan more effective against Grievous than even otherwise more accomplished swordsmen such as Anakin, Mace, or Yoda.The novelization continues and states that Grievous could go up to 20 strikes per second, which overloaded Obi-Wan's defenses and forced him to resort to a different move in order to de-hand Grievous. He's NOT worthless in the movies.
Nah, is a loser in the movies.
Originally posted by Master Crimzonbut there are things in the movie which contradict the novel. for instance, you said gg was throwing upwards of 20 saber strikes per second in the novel, which forced obi to resort to different tactics to dehand him. yet if you watch their duel in the movie, there is no way in hell gg was moving that fast. in fact, there wasn't much more than a dozen, or so, strikes thrown in the movie, before gg lost his first hand [and it took quite a bit more than a second for this to happen]. so imo, that alone is enough to say he wasn't moving at said speeds [movie-wise].
There's nothing in the movie that contradicts this, and therefore, the commentary about him in the RotS novel is canonical.
i have no doubts that CW gg could have easily moved that fast. christ, he was wielding sabers with his feet, and taking on 5-6 jedi at a time. you'd pretty much have to move at those speeds to accomplish feats of that scale. but in the movie, he just didn't seem nearly as impressive to me [and apparently others].
again, please remember that i am not debating what the novel says about gg - but rather, how he seemed to be portrayed [to me] in the movie itself.
Originally posted by Galan007
but there are things in the movie which contradict the novel. for instance, you said gg was throwing upwards of 20 saber strikes per second in the novel, which forced obi to resort to different tactics to dehand him. yet if you watch their duel in the movie, there is no way in hell gg was moving that fast. in fact, there wasn't much more than a dozen, or so, strikes thrown in the movie, before gg lost his first hand [and it took quite a bit more than a second for this to happen]. so imo, that alone is enough to say he wasn't moving at said speeds [movie-wise].i have no doubts that CW gg could have easily moved that fast. christ, he was wielding sabers with his feet, and taking on 5-6 jedi at a time. you'd pretty much have to move at those speeds to accomplish feats of that scale. but in the movie, he just didn't seem nearly as impressive to me [and apparently others].
again, please remember that i am not debating what the novel says about gg - but rather, how he seemed to be portrayed [to me] in the movie itself.
The speeds in the novel do not contradict the speeds in the movie, and besides, your personal observations < Official novelization personally approved by GL. For all you know, Obi-Wan WAS getting overwhelmed by GG (watch his facial expressions, read the script and the novel), and it wasn't exactly a walk in the part, as you seem o suggest.
I'm just here to prove that movie Grievous isn't the weakling depicted in the movie, and besides, in the CW series, he didn't attack THAT fast. I seriously doubt if he was as fast or faster than in the movie.
Originally posted by Master Crimzonyet you can watch the movie and clearly see he wasn't throwing 20+ saber strikes per second? okay, i guess what actually happened in the movie < the novel cuz Z0MG GL approved it [like he didn't approve the movie or something]?! that's cool no point arguing it any further because you'll probably just give me the same response. just to let you know, the novel and movie do seem to contradict each other in some aspects imo.
The speeds in the novel do not contradict the speeds in the movie, and besides, your personal observations < Official novelization personally approved by GL. For all you know, Obi-Wan WAS getting overwhelmed by GG (watch his facial expressions, read the script and the novel), and it wasn't exactly a walk in the part, as you seem o suggest.
[/thatpartofthedebate].
Originally posted by Master Crimzoni'm not saying movie gg was necessarily weak in the literal sense. he just seemed weak/feeble/pathetic to me [and others] in comparison to his jedi-busting CW self. nothing more, nothing less.
I'm just here to prove that movie Grievous isn't the weakling depicted in the movie, and besides, in the CW series, he didn't attack THAT fast. I seriously doubt if he was as fast or faster than in the movie.
Look, you can go ahead and ignore George Lucas, the script, Obi-Wan's expressions in the movie, but, seriously. What make GG appear weak to you? I never actually got that.
And, for the last time, the RotS novel features information unseen within the movie, and is canonical so long as nothing directly contradicts it. Narrations and depictions ARE canonical.
Originally posted by Master Crimzoni haven't ignored anything. i've acknowledged everything you've mentioned concerning the novel. all i've been saying is, there seem to be discrepencies concerning the movie & novel's portrayals of gg [in that battle at least].
Look, you can go ahead and ignore George Lucas, the script, Obi-Wan's expressions in the movie, but, seriously. What make GG appear weak to you? I never actually got that.
gg from the RotS movie had a chronic, seemingly painful cough; his mobility/agility didn't seem up to snuff [ie. he wasn't overwhelming anyone with speed, dueling with his feet, etc. like he was in CW]; his saber skills seemed to have lessened [in terms of overall movement/striking speed]. all of the above are total 180's compared to his CW self.
if you still disagree, that's fine. but i'm not going to debate on this any longer. as both of us have stated pretty much the same things time and time agin.
Originally posted by Master Crimzonthe novel apparently says gg was striking 20+ times a second. the movie displays speeds nowhere near that. seems like a contradiction to me. *shrugs*
And, for the last time, the RotS novel features information unseen within the movie, and is canonical so long as nothing directly contradicts it. Narrations and depictions ARE canonical.
Doesn't matter if it's just sabers or all-out, because Malak loses either way. The only time he was a dangerous combatant was when he was being empowered on the Star Forge, and since we aren't there in this battle...
Force Lightning can be deflected/absorbed by Grievous, especially considering he has four lightsabers to do so with. And in pure saber speed and technique, Grievous would destroy Malak - he went toe to toe with Mace Windu afterall, and was trained by Count Dooku (one of the greatest ya da ya da ya da, etc.). No contest for Grievous. The only way he loses is if Malak can actually manage to do a Force Crush before he's beheaded. Considering the strength you'd need to crush durasteel (I assume that's what Grievous' body is made of?), and that Malak isn't getting a boost, I don't even know if he can do that.
Kind of off topic, but do you all take that "killing hundreds of our brothers and sisters" at face value, and assume it to mean Jedi? Because I think taking 'brothers and sisters' to mean Republic soldiers makes more sense. If he's taking their lightsabers as souvenirs, well, we never see him with a closet filled with lightsabers, right? And Grievous was in some very large Clone Wars battles - exactly how many Jedi could he have taken down at once during those conflicts? I just don't see the 'hundreds' number being correct if it refers to Jedi casualties.
(Who's the guy saying that stuff in the scan, anyway? Cin maybe?How does he know? 😛)
