Originally posted by Astner
Beyonder turns the Source into toilet paper. By the way, what's "full-power" the Source?
Isn't the Source the same the same thing that Lucifer ignored without consequences?
Originally posted by psycho gundam
"beyond omniversal" the hell?!no matter where pre-retconn (and pre-depowered) beyonder went, he was omnipotent, only owen reese the other fraction of his leaked power could touch him.
In other words, The Source is an aspect of The Presence itself.
The others being The Word, The Light, GEB, Elaine, and The Spectre.
Originally posted by occultdestroyerAll play a role in the grand design the Presence made but does not make them equal in power just because they play certain function. clearly showing difference in level of power each of those char you listed.
The Source, at FP, besides being omnipotent, is basically omnipresent and omniscient.
Aspects that The Beyonder does not have.In other words, The Source is an aspect of The Presence itself.
The others being The Word, The Light, GEB, Elaine, and The Spectre.
Can the Presence give the power to beat beyonder? Sure but that would make all these battle Presence vs X
Originally posted by kgkg
All play a role in the grand design the Presence made but does not make them equal in power just because they play certain function. clearly showing difference in level of power each of those char you listed.Can the Presence give the power to beat beyonder? Sure but that would make all these battle Presence vs X
MU can continue to exist without The Beyonder, whilst DCU cannot without The Source.
Originally posted by occultdestroyerI see what you are saying but Marvel would not exist without the Living Tribunal and the Cosmic forces and classic Beyonder > LT and everyone else introduced at that point in time.
Then you admit that The Source >>> Beyonder.
Since The Beyonder does NOT play any role in the grand design of TOAA.MU can continue to exist without The Beyonder, whilst DCU cannot without The Source.
Originally posted by kgkg
I see what you are saying but Marvel would not exist without the Living Tribunal and the Cosmic forces and classic Beyonder > LT and everyone else introduced at that point in time.
I can see the point you are implying, but the MU Abstracts are irrelevant to this thread.
We are strictly talking about The Beyonder and The Source.
The Source powers everything there is in DC. And he's been doing it at HALF his power!!!
Now we are talking about FP The Source.
And THAT is a s***load of power to begin with.
Originally posted by bbrem123
if they are both all powerful then it is a stalemate
The classic Beyonder Wasn't all powerful. As a property of Marvel, he is still below the TOAA. And We all know that the beyonder DID not create the marvel multiverse. So how can he be all powerful if he didn't create nor sustain someone elses back yard.
Originally posted by occultdestroyerHe was at half power.
And everything that The Source did since the beginning of time empowering the whole DCU, he did while limiting himself.
😐
Beyonder was a fraction of his normal power.
Beyonder was all powerful, as confirmed by Jim Shooter.
If I remember right, he eventually embodied all of the Marvel Prime Multiverse as well, in due time.
IF you say that cause he did not create Marvel Mutliverse he can't be all powerful, think of it like this, Beyonder was supreme being in a totally separate verse from Marvel, then Owen Reece somehow blew a hole into the verse, connecting them. Then, Beyonder in turn spread his supremity to Marvel. That's how I see it personally.
Oh, and if I recall right, TOAA technically did not exist back then, the concept of TOAA was not invented til later.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He was at half power.Beyonder was a fraction of his normal power.
Beyonder was all powerful, as confirmed by Jim Shooter.
If I remember right, he eventually embodied all of the Marvel Prime Multiverse as well, in due time.
IF you say that cause he did not create Marvel Mutliverse he can't be all powerful, think of it like this, Beyonder was supreme being in a totally separate verse from Marvel, then Owen Reece somehow blew a hole into the verse, connecting them. Then, Beyonder in turn spread his supremity to Marvel. That's how I see it personally.
Oh, and if I recall right, TOAA technically did not exist back then, the concept of TOAA was not invented til later.
The beyonder couldn't have been all powerful from another reality when he's a marvel character. He wasn't from some seperate comic company and then all of a sudden he oozed in.
Oh and technically wouldn't all that the beyonder used to be, now be the marvel omniverse that the LT is actually more powerful than?