Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
We have to go by canon not opinions, and Sidious is the most powerful sith as far as canon goes.
Then you know that canonically,that Sidious is the strongest Dark Lord of the Banite Sith line,which likes like Exar Kun,Vitiate or Nihilus do not belong...
Moreover(with DE comic book as well) you know that when Sidious was developed at such a high extent,Exar Kun and the other two that I have mentioned there did not even appear. 😛
And Darth Sion in the cut content,has showned that his quasi-immortality allows him to hamper and the Force powers as well... So Palpatine can use Force lightning,Vader can crush his lungs but he will still get up... And as long the pain and affliction flows through him,his body cannot be torn apart,unless Sidious knows a spell to divide the flesh from his body,which I highely doubt of that...
But Nihilus is enough,because his only presence strips Sidious' and Vader's Force connection,leaving them "Forceless",and then he will feed on their Force energy and suck them completely,until they will transform in nothing more but dust that scatters the galaxy.
Originally posted by Gideon
Of course, it's possible that Palpatine can immerse himself in Quey'tek and kill Nihilus as he makes Anakin Skywalker a Force slurpee.
I assume you are referring to the technique known as Force Concealment, which shrouds one's presence in the Force from others who would attempt to sense them through the Force. It's a Force invisibility cloak from other Force users, and I am afraid that invisibility will not protect you from a grenade. We are talking about a feeding that consumes everything touched by the Force. Unless these individuals cut themselves off so completely that the Force no longer interacts with them on any level (to the point where they need outside sources to use any Force techniques), then they are still vulnerable. Non-Force sensitives are still a target to Nihilus and his life-sapping, mind-eroding presence. Evidence of this is on his ship, the Ravager. Col. Tobin is not Force sensitive and a military officer,presumably he is trained to resist Force tactics (Not saying he is immune) and yet he looks like his very being and demeanor was deteriorated. The men on the bridge are all withered, mindless husks. Looking back at Katarr, the planet was a lush, green, paradise for the Miraluka. Nihilus turned it into a brown, desiccated, wasteland. All flora, fauna, buildings, everything that the force touched was consumed. So unless you can tell me that they sacrifice their entire existence in the force on that level, then they are still a target and susceptible to his feeding.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Defends against drain, then force storms all of space.Says canon.
Darth Nihilus is more like a cancer in the Force. Or like a blackhole. A walking fracture that is killing the Force itself. That alone almost negates Force attacks on him completely. And his prime ability, while similar to your average Force drain, is very different,It sucks up the Life-Force of the creatures he kills to sustain his hunger, not the actual force we know as "Force energy",but the "Force" itself is destroyed, and that would make any Force defence also useless. The pure magnitude of his use of the ability is also a factor. Where others require days of preparation and complex rituals before they destroy entire planets, Nihilus just settles in orbit and does it at the snap of a finger. Also with every feeding, Nihilus' hunger grew as did his power. It was implied that he was nearing the point when he would reach out across the galaxy and consume all life and ultimately destroy the Force as a whole.
The main part still remains that Nihilus destroys the Force simply by being there. That isn't activated, it is always there. It is what he is. He has no connection to the Force. The Force itself is just plain destroyed. Which makes all attacks through the Force very ineffective. You'd essentially be throwing Force powers into a death zone where the Force does not exist. So average attacks would cease to exist and stronger attacks would be significantly weakened -- like it was rapidly suffocated. If it reaches the source, it would be for naught. Like throwing knives at a black hole and expecting it to collapse. Nihilus can hardly be compared to any Force user as he destroys the Force itself and was getting close to just destroying it all at once. His condition creates a whole new battlefield where his very presence strips away a Force user's central reliance and power, leaving only a man, woman, or child holding a lightsaber as the only defense.
Nihilus' drain is a direct effect of him being a Force Wound and is unlike any other Force drain seen in the mythos. It effectively acts like a Sever force and Force drain hybrid, and is stated by Kreia, the mother of all things Force drain, to be unblockable. Despite this,his Force drain doesn't work on other Force Wounds and attempting to do such will only tire him. Being a Wound in the Force means he cannot wield the Force naturally and instead he must either form Force bonds or kill Force sensitives in order to use it. Each kill increases his power permanently but the power and increase is dependant on the strength of the person killed. Example, if he killed someone who was just a regular old farmer the power increase would be extremely small but if he killed Yoda the power increase would be great. Forming Force bonds is the best way of increasing your power, but if the bond dies or severs there connection to you, you lose the increase.
Thus is why he is so over powered. It is a bold claim to say a character is stronger than Sidious but just looking at the facts its also a true claim. Nihilus being so strong is also the reason that after his game, SW canon almost refused to acknowledge his existence again. Aside from a few easter eggs here and their
Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's an odd way to spell Sidious. mmm
Regardless, you are just are arguing "Power vs. Power". Everything Sidious does in your descriptions is through the Force. Nihilus changes the rules that would normally apply to a Force User vs. Force User battle as he becomes more threatening when around larger concentrations of Force energy. If anything you have convinced me that when Sidious is near him, Nihilus may also be a threat to nearby solar systems during this confrontation.
Again we are discussing a guy who ripped away the Force so completely, violently, and at such a critical and catastrophic moment that it physically tore open the fabric of the Force itself. To my knowledge, only he and the Exile are the only ones in Star Wars history to experience this completely foreign, (star wars)reality-defying existence. The rules of such a battle would differ significantly by a number of factors that I have listed in previous posts.
Nihilus' condition (As quoted by Darth Traya) "cannot be taught". It is something that is gained through pure instinct. But it comes with a terrible prerequisite that I doubt Sidious would even consider risking; becoming a walking Force Wound.
And a part of me has doubts that this is even considered a Force technique. It acts more like the hot knife cutting through butter (the Force) to an extent. You see the reason Nihilus could not 'consume' the Exile is because she is also a Force Wound. She tore the Force away at such a pivotal point that shook the Force (activation of the Mass Shadow Generator on Malachor V) in order to survive. So in a sense, his power canceled out. He was trying to consume Force energy where none existed, and it drained him.
Now I don't remember the Exile being able to cut him off from his power. After all if that were true, the ship may have very well broken apart right then and there. He held it together with his will and still managed to hold his own in a 3v1 lightsaber duel. (Well Canderous had a vibrosword in my playthrough, but either way he is still a war-hardened Mandalorian warrior) And all after he was drained, starved, and exhausted. I think his powers were still present.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Well DE Sidious is the strongest Sith Lord ever.Sion is pretty much useless in this fight.
As is Traya really, her only real strength was her power over the Force, and it is nowhere near Sidious' level.
Nihilus is really the only truly powerful member of the Triumvirate, but still loses.
While Wookieepedia is a competent website, I wouldn't say it is a 100% reliable source anymore than I would with any other internet wiki. Don't get me wrong, I go there too when I want information, but really the sources behind the page are good to look at.
For instance, if I type Darth Nihilus on Wookieepedia and examine his powers, virtually all the sources on them are from the tabletop d20 game "Star Wars RPG Saga Edition"produced by Wizards of the Coast, and the video game 'KotOR 2'. The information on his abilities are purely what was built into the respective games' mechanics. Game mechanics are a representation of a character's abilities that brings them down to a balanced, playable level, which unfortunately makes them non-canon. If it had been Obsidian who produced the "Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide" for the d20 game, I doubt they would have even bothered to state Nihilus at all as he could snuff out any Jedi players simply by looking in the general direction of the party's ship as it approached the Ravager -- let alone being in the same room as him. (Let's not, again, bring up the many circumstances behind his most, and possibly only, known lightsabers-blazing duel)
I agree that his ability to feed on the Force needs greater clarification beyond that it is purely "instinctual". Although I believe that my "Cancer Metaphor" is a good approximation to how it is used. Working from what we have, Nihilus is able to consume the Force itself and anything it touches on a planetary scale, at an extremely fast rate. It is also implied that the scale at which he feeds grows with each feeding. From this alone, I don't see any force user surviving the encounter. Every force user relies on the Force to achieve all of their incredible feats, and Nihilus feeds on it.
Nihilus only uses his lightsaber as a last resort -- as we have seen. And while lightsabers can deflect or absorb the destructive energy of Force lightning, it cannot prevent Force drain, especially Nihilus' unique, unteachable brand of Force drain that probably formed because of his condition.
Thus bringing me back to original posts' concluding statement. The only defense from Nihilus' technique is becoming a Wound in the Force, just like him. Otherwise anything touched by the Force would be ripped away, the Force destroyed, and the life-Force consumed. All physical matter would appear to have been disintegrated or demoleculorized.
Again, I may be the minority in this, but I think this is one opponent that even Sidious would lose against in a direct confrontation.
Originally posted by Gideon
After thinking about it, the Emperor won't have to worry about Sion for two reasons; first, Anakin has demonstrated the skills necessary to occupy his attention if not outright kill him due to his psuedoinvincibility and second, Palpatine could crush him with the Force. So if he absolutely can't spare the split second it would take to manhandle Sion, Skywalker is more than capable to attack the Dark Lord. Moreover, Palpatine is also capable of disintegrating Nihilus', Traya's, and Sion's lightsabers. The problem is dealing with Traya and Nihilus simultaneously.
And Darth Sion in the cut content,has showned that his quasi-immortality allows him to hamper and the Force powers as well... So Palpatine can use Force lightning,Vader can crush his lungs but he will still get up... And as long the pain and affliction flows through him,his body cannot be torn apart,unless Sidious knows a spell to divide the flesh from his body,which I highely doubt of that...
But Nihilus is enough,because his only presence strips Sidious' and Vader's Force connection,leaving them "Forceless",and then he will feed on their Force energy and suck them completely,until they will transform in nothing more but dust that scatters the galaxy.
Originally posted by Gideon
After thinking about it, the Emperor won't have to worry about Sion for two reasons; first, Anakin has demonstrated the skills necessary to occupy his attention if not outright kill him due to his psuedoinvincibility and second, Palpatine could crush him with the Force. So if he absolutely can't spare the split second it would take to manhandle Sion, Skywalker is more than capable to attack the Dark Lord. Moreover, Palpatine is also capable of disintegrating Nihilus', Traya's, and Sion's lightsabers. The problem is dealing with Traya and Nihilus simultaneously.
As for your second statement, you have to remember we are talking about an entity who doesn't "perceive" the same way you or I do. His "eyes" see force energy. And since Sidious is one of the most powerful Sith Lords to ever exist, he would be radiating a huge amount of force energy like a beacon. Nihilus is like a "black hole" in the force. Constantly sucking in force energy and feeding off its power. This process in turn destroys the force.
So again, this may seem overpowered, but his condition comes only with his unique circumstance and instinct -- it cannot be taught. It also carries with it far too heavy a price. He lost his body, his humanity, became a slave to his hunger, and he was doomed to die eventually. The question has always been how many he will kill before he falls. It is not something that any other force user would desire to have. I seriously doubt he would walk into a direct confrontation with a threat he cannot even sense.
It took a trap set by Kreia to make Nihilus to be "fightable". He became so weak that when The Exile confronted him, he was on his knees already. Also there is a deleted scene of Sion versus Nihilus not an actual "fight" since it is impossible where Darth Sion is, for all intents and purposes, "useless" in a fight. This guy is practically "unfightable". You need to deny his nourishment, his possibilities to feed, and only then can you fight him. A bug in Force programming.