Originally posted by Enyalus
NJO Luke loses to DE Sidious? What??Have you been debating with KOTOR3 for too long?
No.
I simply have read more NJO than most people and know for a fact that Skywalker doesn't get truly uber until The Unifying Force. He gets dominated by a random Dark Jedi, even with assistance. A few years before NJO, he was nearly killed by a single droideka. In LotF, though he demonstrates Force mastery a notable tier or two above Caedus, he is still injured and challenged by him in lightsaber combat.
He is not a god.
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Then who is the most powerful force user?
I lack the authority and comprehensive knowledge to say for certain. Is Luke Skywalker among the finest? Certainly. Invincible depicts Skywalker demonstrating frightening power in terms of illusions and surprising extent of Force knowledge (his mastery of the shatterpoint charism). He was capable of rooting himself in the Force that the galaxy's central black hole would not be able to move him (though it's arguable hyperbole). As a combatant, I am willing to concede that he is greater than the Galactic Emperor; he's certainly a more versed and conditioned warrior. But in terms of scale and destruction? Palpatine has demonstrated more destructive power than any singular magus in canon and has effected the galaxy on a wider scale than even the Chosen One or Skywalker himself.
Though I'm also hesitant to say Palpatine was the MOST POWERFUL EVAH. He's arguably the most powerful we've seen, but that's it.
Judging from his feats in-game, Vader is a far greater combatant than most would give him credit for. In the novelization, he casually chokes General Kota (who is a supremely talented duelist) in mid-air and proceeds to hurl Starkiller through a wall via a massive stone obelisk that is functioning as a table. He also manhandles PROXY when the droid attacks him with his "most dangerous training module" and serves to challenge an incredibly empowered Starkiller in combat.
Vader's problem is that he isn't very well versed in the Force compared to others.
True but his skills in sheer TK alone are already pretty impressive which is a testament to his strength in the force. I could imagine how much more powerful he is capable of being had he actually studied other force techniques such as drain life or being more versed into the force.
But i thought he had an ancient sith holocron? It was stated in the rise and fall of darth vader that he did have one in his castle in vjun.
Luke has no chance in hell of completing this gauntlet. DE Sidious would be a tough win but I don't see how he could anywhere close to a full strength a day after after fighting him especially after fighting ROTS Yoda and Sidious prior to fighting DE Sidious. So I say he falls at 3 or 4 due to prior injuries and not enough recovery time.
Originally posted by GideonNihilus.
But in terms of scale and destruction? Palpatine has demonstrated more destructive power than any singular magus in canon
and has effected the galaxy on a wider scale than even the Chosen One or Skywalker himself.'A'ffected. 😐
And if you're referring to his effect on the Force, that's hardly due to personal power. The presence of any powerful dark side affiliate is enough to disturb any Jedi, and even negative actions and events can do that (Jedi Purge, Alderaan, etc.).
Though I'm also hesitant to say Palpatine was the MOST POWERFUL EVAH. He's arguably the most powerful we've seen, but that's it.In raw power or potential, he really isn't. Discounting Nihilus, his Force-storm has the most destructive potential of any intentional assault ever conducted, and his Force mastery is relatively unchallenged, but he has his superiors in some regards. Dooku possibly demonstrated greater finesse with telekinesis than Sidious ever has, with Luke Skywalker, Kyp Durron, and Garen Malek have all shown far greater telekinetic power - with it being implied that Yoda could as well - and Darth Bane used it on a subatomic level, which I don't believe we've seen Sidious do. Mace, Jacen, Jaina, and Luke have all mastered the shatterpoint technique, which Cade Skywalker seemingly used a variant of, and also instinctively used, at fourteen, a power that literally brought his master back from death, with there being dozens of characters who've arguably shown a greater natural affinity for instinctive use of the Force than Sidious has.
Anyway, Luke has shown the most destructive ability with a lightsaber of pretty much anyone in the saga. He pretty much single-handedly took down a Yuuzhan Vong army in TUF, with Jacen and Jaina basically cleaning up behind him while being awed by his sheer power and speed, describing him as a "maelstrom" in the Force and noting that he appeared to be wielding twenty lightsabers at once. In the conclusion of DN, after ridding himself of the doubt that allowed Lomi Plo to defeat him, he pretty much owned Raynar Thul after taking a Force-push backed by the combined power of the entire Killik hive. Thul's power expenditure earlier was so great that it burned through his gloves, IIRC, and I believe Glentract said he bent away turbolaser blasts. Luke then proceeded to tool Lomi Plo with his weak left hand after getting shot in the right side by a now one-armed Thul. After musing that, even with his weak hand, he could fight better one-handed than anyone else in the entire Jedi Order, he casually sidesteps Lomi's final charge and literally carves her up.
So yeah, I think he could take Sidious without much threat to his own life.