Palpatine makes the Force Storm technique sound fairly simple in the manuscripts he wrote. Something about channeling your anger through the center of your being (the seat of power) and visualizing the destruction, or some equally ridiculous thing. I think it was his unparalled access to Sith and Jedi knowledge that allowed him to create such an attack.
Give Kun, Reven, Nihilus, Bane, Caedus, and probably others acess to that kind of Force knowledge, and it's almost a given they'd be able to do the same.
Also, Bane's use of the Force on a subatomic level is impressive, but I think it's implied that anyone who made a Sith holocron had to use the Force in the same way. Something about the crystal's matrices alligning properly.
Originally posted by EnyalusIt cannot possibly be as simple as you imply, have a little common sense man.
Palpatine makes the Force Storm technique sound fairly simple in the manuscripts he wrote. Something about channeling your anger through the center of your being (the seat of power) and visualizing the destruction, or some equally ridiculous thing. I think it was his unparalled access to Sith and Jedi knowledge that allowed him to create such an attack.Give Kun, Reven, Nihilus, Bane, Caedus, and probably others acess to that kind of Force knowledge, and it's almost a given they'd be able to do the same.
Also, Bane's use of the Force on a subatomic level is impressive, but I think it's implied that anyone who made a Sith holocron had to use the Force in the same way. Something about the crystal's matrices alligning properly.
Originally posted by DarkSerpent
It cannot possibly be as simple as you imply, have a little common sense man.
Have you read Dark Empire? It has excerpts from some of the books Palpatine had wrote at the back of the comic(such as The Book of Anger), one of which describes how the Force Storm technique is used. It also states that initially, it was almost impossible for him to control the maelstrom of Dark Side energies, but by DE he has complete control of it.
Originally posted by EnyalusKinda my point, not just any sith or jedi could do this. Like everybody believes that just about anybody could Force Sever.
Have you read Dark Empire? It has excerpts from some of the books Palpatine had wrote at the back of the comic(such as The Book of Anger), one of which describes how the Force Storm technique is used. It also states that initially, it was almost impossible for him to control the maelstrom of Dark Side energies, but by DE he has complete control of it.
Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Kinda my point, not just any sith or jedi could do this. Like everybody believes that just about anybody could Force Sever.
Palps makes it sound easy. Channeling anger through the center of your body while controlling it with your willpower, or somesuch thing. *shrugs*
Originally posted by Faunus
Nihilus.
Emperor Palpatine was a master of the "most powerful Force technique ever" that was capable of "tearing the surfaces off worlds", transporting powerful Force users across the space/time continuum and deposit him within a Lictor-class dungeon ship, and destroying an entire fleet of state-of-the-art ships each equipped with shields capable of resisting gigatons of damage.
The word "Nihilus" doesn't impress me nearly as much.
'A'ffected. 😐And if you're referring to his effect on the Force, that's hardly due to personal power. The presence of any powerful dark side affiliate is enough to disturb any Jedi, and even negative actions and events can do that (Jedi Purge, Alderaan, etc.).
I can only respond to that ridiculous statement by reminding you of the following:
Palpatine was identified directly with the dark side of the Force and the 'shadow' that blunted the Jedi Order's perceptions throughout the entirety of the prequel trilogy in the Revenge of the Sith novelization. His rituals in Sithisis allowed him to directly impact galactic-affairs through the Force, such as increasing the hatred within Anakin Skywalker and anxiety throughout the entire Order, including Yoda himself. Count Dooku once observed Palpatine "through the eyes of the Force itself" and witnessed that his Master was "an event horizon", "darkness beyond darkness", "beyond power", and "a black hole of the Force." Starkiller observed that "the Sith Lord who singlehandedly wiped out most of the Jedi in the galaxy could cast a shadow deep enough to hide anything." Moreover, the most incriminating evidence is how his birth -- the one person who could "embrace the dark side completely" (Labyrinth of Evil) -- yielded the creation of the Chosen One to bring balance to the Force by eliminating Palpatine (Vader: the Ultimate Visual Guide and The Essential Guide to Characters."
You will be courteous enough to get me a list of these characters who have impacted the Force in such a fashion, then? I'm ashamed to have missed them, since they are apparently so common.
In raw power or potential, he really isn't.
Other than anyone with the name Skywalker, you'd have a tough time proving that.
Discounting Nihilus, his Force-storm has the most destructive potential of any intentional assault ever conducted, and his Force mastery is relatively unchallenged, but he has his superiors in some regards.
Nihilus has been dealt with. "Some regards" =/= greater strength. He asked me who the most powerful Force user was. You're splitting hairs.
Dooku possibly demonstrated greater finesse with telekinesis than Sidious ever has,
...And would still be crushed by him all the same.
with Luke Skywalker, Kyp Durron, and Garen Malek have all shown far greater telekinetic power - with it being implied that Yoda could as well - and Darth Bane used it on a subatomic level, which I don't believe we've seen Sidious do.
Where is it implied that Yoda could have done as much? Moreover, when have they demonstrated abilities to tear surfaces off of worlds? You're splitting hairs.
Mace, Jacen, Jaina, and Luke have all mastered the shatterpoint technique, which Cade Skywalker seemingly used a variant of, and also instinctively used, at fourteen, a power that literally brought his master back from death, with there being dozens of characters who've arguably shown a greater natural affinity for instinctive use of the Force than Sidious has.
Instinctive? Palpatine's a scholar, not a warrior. His instincts are likely terrible, though it doesn't matter. Count Dooku and Darth Maul, according to Lucas, could never have equalled or surpassed the Emperor in potency. Jacen, Cade, Jaina, and Luke? Of course. Mace? Doubt it. It doesn't matter, you're still splitting hairs.
Anyway, Luke has shown the most destructive ability with a lightsaber of pretty much anyone in the saga. He pretty much single-handedly took down a Yuuzhan Vong army in TUF, with Jacen and Jaina basically cleaning up behind him while being awed by his sheer power and speed, describing him as a "maelstrom" in the Force and noting that he appeared to be wielding twenty lightsabers at once. In the conclusion of DN, after ridding himself of the doubt that allowed Lomi Plo to defeat him, he pretty much owned Raynar Thul after taking a Force-push backed by the combined power of the entire Killik hive. Thul's power expenditure earlier was so great that it burned through his gloves, IIRC, and I believe Glentract said he bent away turbolaser blasts. Luke then proceeded to tool Lomi Plo with his weak left hand after getting shot in the right side by a now one-armed Thul. After musing that, even with his weak hand, he could fight better one-handed than anyone else in the entire Jedi Order, he casually sidesteps Lomi's final charge and literally carves her up.
Because mastery of the lightsaber translates to power? All hail Kas'im and Anoon Bondara.
So yeah, I think he could take Sidious without much threat to his own life.
DN Luke =/= NJO Luke. And as stated before, Skywalker is likely a greater combatant, but not necessarily more powerful, and not by NJO.
You're splitting hairs.
Originally posted by FaunusI bet you Gideon's responding to this right now.
Nihilus.'A'ffected. 😐
And if you're referring to his effect on the Force, that's hardly due to personal power. The presence of any powerful dark side affiliate is enough to disturb any Jedi, and even negative actions and events can do that (Jedi Purge, Alderaan, etc.).
In raw power or potential, he really isn't. Discounting Nihilus, his Force-storm has the most destructive potential of any intentional assault ever conducted, and his Force mastery is relatively unchallenged, but he has his superiors in some regards. Dooku possibly demonstrated greater finesse with telekinesis than Sidious ever has, with Luke Skywalker, Kyp Durron, and Garen Malek have all shown far greater telekinetic power - with it being implied that Yoda could as well - and Darth Bane used it on a subatomic level, which I don't believe we've seen Sidious do. Mace, Jacen, Jaina, and Luke have all mastered the shatterpoint technique, which Cade Skywalker seemingly used a variant of, and also instinctively used, at fourteen, a power that literally brought his master back from death, with there being dozens of characters who've arguably shown a greater natural affinity for instinctive use of the Force than Sidious has.
Anyway, Luke has shown the most destructive ability with a lightsaber of pretty much anyone in the saga. He pretty much single-handedly took down a Yuuzhan Vong army in TUF, with Jacen and Jaina basically cleaning up behind him while being awed by his sheer power and speed, describing him as a "maelstrom" in the Force and noting that he appeared to be wielding twenty lightsabers at once. In the conclusion of DN, after ridding himself of the doubt that allowed Lomi Plo to defeat him, he pretty much owned Raynar Thul after taking a Force-push backed by the combined power of the entire Killik hive. Thul's power expenditure earlier was so great that it burned through his gloves, IIRC, and I believe Glentract said he bent away turbolaser blasts. Luke then proceeded to tool Lomi Plo with his weak left hand after getting shot in the right side by a now one-armed Thul. After musing that, even with his weak hand, he could fight better one-handed than anyone else in the entire Jedi Order, he casually sidesteps Lomi's final charge and literally carves her up.
So yeah, I think he could take Sidious without much threat to his own life.
And throw in that thing he said about "[not having] enough authority and comprehensive knowledge" regarding this stuff for me, too. It's just an opinion.
Originally posted by Gideon
Palpatine was identified directly with the dark side of the Force and the 'shadow' that blunted the Jedi Order's perceptions throughout the entirety of the prequel trilogy in the Revenge of the Sith novelization.
It should be remembered that the Dark Side of the Force began clouding Jedi perceptions and in general, everything else as early as 200 BBY (Perhaps this was due to Plagueis' master? Or even Plagueis himself.)
Originally posted by Gideon
Moreover, the most incriminating evidence is how his birth -- the one person who could "embrace the dark side completely" (Labyrinth of Evil) -- yielded the creation of the Chosen One to bring balance to the Force by eliminating Palpatine (Vader: the Ultimate Visual Guide and The Essential Guide to Characters."
Erm, can you explain this statement more clearly? I didn't get what you were trying to say. Palpatine's birth? Plageuis' yielded the creation of the Chosen One. And what about eliminating Sids? 😐
Originally posted by Enyalus
It should be remembered that the Dark Side of the Force began clouding Jedi perceptions and in general, everything else as early as 200 BBY (Perhaps this was due to Plagueis' master? Or even Plagueis himself.)
"The dark side has been gaining strength" in preparation for Darth Sidious. Labyrinth of Evil confirms that only he could "embrace the dark side fully."
Erm, can you explain this statement more clearly? I didn't get what you were trying to say. Palpatine's birth? Plageuis' yielded the creation of the Chosen One. And what about eliminating Sids? 😐
Skywalker was the apparent creation of Plagueis according to the New Essential Chronology. It's not conclusive. And what I meant was that the Force created Anakin, the prophesied Chosen One, to destroy the Emperor. Not Darth Bane. Not Nihilus. Not Revan. Palpatine.
And I'm sorry if I came off antagonistic, Faunus. I didn't mean to be so rude. You know how I feel about you. 😛
Skywalker was the apparent creation of Plagueis according to the New Essential Chronology. It's not conclusive. And what I meant was that the Force created Anakin, the prophesied Chosen One, to destroy the Emperor. Not Darth Bane. Not Nihilus. Not Revan. Palpatine.
Ah, now I get it. Good points. Never thought about that before.
You're coming off as antagonistic. But it's okay. I know how you feel about me.
And I thought that the two points of yours I selected excluding the one about Sidious' effect on the Force (forgot the clouding thing) made it evident that I wasn't disputing his power but more your assertions that he could take Luke in combat, and that he was literally the be all end all of Force-users, when there are several people who can do things that he can't. I'm obviously not disputing that he's achieved more with the Force than any single individual, and I don't know where you would've gotten that impression. You're like a sick, male version of my mother.
Originally posted by GideonWhat exactly were we arguing? Destructive potential? I suppose it's relative, since Nihilus' power affects life itself while ravages the surface of an entire planet, but fine.
Emperor Palpatine was a master of the "most powerful Force technique ever" that was capable of "tearing the surfaces off worlds", transporting powerful Force users across the space/time continuum and deposit him within a Lictor-class dungeon ship, and destroying an entire fleet of state-of-the-art ships each equipped with shields capable of resisting gigatons of damage.
You will be courteous enough to get me a list of these characters who have impacted the Force in such a fashion, then? I'm ashamed to have missed them, since they are apparently so common.You and your sarcasm.
Other than anyone with the name Skywalker, you'd have a tough time proving that.People with arguably more potential? Based on speed of progression and seeming natural affinity? Nomi, Bane, Anakin, Starkiller, Luke, Leia, Kyp, Jacen, Jaina, Anakin II, Ben, Cade...
All but four are Skywalkers, and two are somewhat debatable, but there you go.
Nihilus has been dealt with. "Some regards" =/= greater strength. He asked me who the most powerful Force user was. You're splitting hairs.I'm confused, and judging by the "splitting hairs" thing so are you.
...And would still be crushed by him all the same.No one argued this. I'm refuting what appeared to be your presumption that he's better than everybody at everything related to the Force.
Where is it implied that Yoda could have done as much?Sidious' greatest telekinetic feat, while certainly not his upper limit, was chucking several Senate pods at Yoda. Mace noted that Yoda could've simply and casually levitated a steamcrawler over a fissure, and the Jedi has already deflected with minimal effort a missile falling from orbit at tens of thousands of miles per hour IIRC, sealed a breach in a starship with his own power, lifted an X-Wing, and if the CW comics based on the cartoon are regarded, picked up a gun the size of a small house and carried it on his back.
Moreover, when have they demonstrated abilities to tear surfaces off of worlds?When did I ever say they did?
Count Dooku and Darth Maul, according to Lucas, could never have equalled or surpassed the Emperor in potency.Never even brought up Maul, and didn't even remotely suggest that Dooku could ever become more powerful than Sidious. You're splitting hairs. 😐
Mace? Doubt it.Again, never suggested this.
Because mastery of the lightsaber translates to power? All hail Kas'im and Anoon Bondara.That wasn't addressed directly to you, it was to everyone contending that Sidious would defeat Skywalker in personal combat.
DN Luke =/= NJO Luke. And as stated before, Skywalker is likely a greater combatant, but not necessarily more powerful, and not by NJO.I took NJO Luke to mean Luke at his current peak, which is what people are usually referring to. And you brought up his feats and faults from LotF as well, so I assumed that was fair game.
You're splitting hairs.I've actually done no such thing, although perhaps I argued points that you'd never brought up. Which would be going off on a tangent. Get your antagonistic, condescending comments right.
'A'ffected.
ef·fect
–noun
1. something that is produced by an agency or cause; result; consequence: Exposure to the sun had the effect of toughening his skin.
2. power to produce results; efficacy; force; validity; influence: His protest had no effect.
3. the state of being effective or operative; operation or execution; accomplishment or fulfillment: to bring a plan into effect.
4. a mental or emotional impression produced, as by a painting or a speech.
5. meaning or sense; purpose or intention: She disapproved of the proposal and wrote to that effect.
–verb (used with object)
10. to produce as an effect; bring about; accomplish; make happen: The new machines finally effected the transition to computerized accounting last spring.
affect
–verb (used with object)
1. to act on; produce an effect or change in: Cold weather affected the crops.
Sadly, the original phrase was correct. Although it flies in the face of conventional usage, the original version was technically fine.