Angeal, Genesis & Cloud vs Sephiroth & Zack Fair

Started by Dark-Jaxx4 pages

Well Angeal was trying to stop him when he blasted him before.

And if you remember when Sephiroth and Genesis went for eachother, Angeal rather easily blocked both their blows.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Well it depends because we've never actually seen Sephiroth go 100%, and i'm sure if Sephiroth gets Genesis pissed off enough, Genesis might end up hurting Angeal at an attempt to take out Sephiroth (which would probably fail)

Lionheart said that not even half his potential has been shown - I'm not entirely sure as to the extent of how true it is.

I still say that Sephiroth owns Angeal and Genesis if he were really trying.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Well Angeal was trying to stop him when he blasted him before.

And if you remember when Sephiroth and Genesis went for eachother, Angeal rather easily blocked both their blows.


I chalk that down to the fact that it was a training session - Sephiroth was not swinging with any real force at all(as you can see, Genesis was blasted back) at that point.

Sephiroth was not seeking to kill, Genesis was, which is why he instantly (from the slow motion of the vid) sliced through Angeal's sword just to get at Sephiroth.

I'd even go so far to say that Sephiroth looks almost leisurely during that fight, even while forcing Genesis backwards with blade beam (during that part when One-Winged Angel was playing) he was swinging his Masamune almost casually.

Team 1 will take it. I think the DOC Genesis is alot stronger than he was in CC. I think Genesis is better than Seph by now.

I mean Seph lost to an inexperienced Cloud (due to a surprise attack) while it to a skilled SOLDIER to take down Genesis (Zack). Aint sayin that Genesis was better than Seph but he wasn't that far behind'im at that point (which was along time ago).

Originally posted by Vampire Savior
Team 1 will take it. I think the DOC Genesis is alot stronger than he was in CC. I think Genesis is better than Seph by now.
...Based on what? 😐

He doesn't have a single feat in DoC. 😬

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
...Based on what? 😐

He doesn't have a single feat in DoC. 😬

In CC Seph wasn't totally beatin the guy. I mean it's many years later and Seph is dead and Genesis is still around, plenty of time to be better ya'know?

Seph was holding back Genesis fairly easily, although he did use some effort of course and started to take the fight a little more seriously, but there is no basis for Genesis being stronger than Seph.

1. BOTH were conversing with each other in the fight

2. sephiroth, like the atypical jap villian is always evilly/casually smirking in a fight, it doesnt necessarily mean that he isnt going all out

3. going by expressions, the expression on sephiroth's face when cloud omnislashed him is pretty evidently that of shock and slightly of fear, so going by that, he wasnt LETTING cloud omnislash him, he cudnt STOP cloud and cloud won fair and square

4. still not cannonc evidence on this thread or from what i remember that cloud has less cells initially

5. conflicting evidence to who is controlling who. sephiroth's aims seem to reflect more and more of jenovah's aims as the stroy progresses. for instance, he says he will do the same thing as "mother" and use the planet to traverse space and absorb the lifestream of other planet. remember, that his initial aim was just to become a god THROUGH the lifestream. and it is JENOVAH that gives him power, NOT the other way around.

6. still factual that cloud beat him twice, both in his most powerful incarnation

5. how was his first defeat a "surprise" attack? i mean he was normal sephiroth, that was defeated, then he turned to bizaaro sephirtoh, who was ALSO defeated, then he turned to safer sephiroth, and was ALSO defeated.

This tired argument will end the moment we witness Sephiroth going all out. But alas Square will be lame and never let us see it. FKN hype they have created.

If Sephiroth is being serious I don't see why he can't solo team 1, and it is not like he has to since Zack is there to lend him an extra sword.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. BOTH were conversing with each other in the fight

Not really, besides Clouds little speech of pitying Sephiroth about knowing nothing, the only thing he says during the fight is "im not telling you" the rest is just Cloud going "ugh ah AGGH!" while Sephiroth says things like "ooo what made you get stronger?", "hmm i think i know what i should give you", "shall i give you despair?", "kneel before me, and beg me for mercy", "tell me what you cherish most, so i can enjoy taking it away from you" and things like that, basically just taunting the crap out of him with a smile on his face.


2. sephiroth, like the atypical jap villian is always evilly/casually smirking in a fight, it doesnt necessarily mean that he isnt going all out

Anyone who watched the video with common sense, or knowledge of Sephiroth knows he wasn't going all out, he was having a casual conversation with Cloud the entire fight with basically a smile on his face, he has powers that he didn't use on Cloud at all, he covered the skies with the NL when he could've used it directly on Cloud, he could've TK'd Cloud, but just TK'd the top of a building instead, he could've battled and moved faster then Loz, but was moving at Clouds speed instead, he coud've directly killed Cloud but just stabbed him in a non-vital spot so he can taunt him some more.


3. going by expressions, the expression on sephiroth's face when cloud omnislashed him is pretty evidently that of shock and slightly of fear, so going by that, he wasnt LETTING cloud omnislash him, he cudnt STOP cloud and cloud won fair and square

I hope you know thats slowed down, and not real-time while Omnislash was happening, it was stated in the Reunion Files that the speed of Omnislash is a "blink of an eye" speed, it caught him off-guard, that along with PIS allowed Omnislash to hit.

4. still not cannonc evidence on this thread or from what i remember that cloud has less cells initially

Are you talking about CC Sephiroth? Because AC Sephiroth is 100% Jenova.

CC Sephiroth was infused with Jenova cells before he was even born, unlike the other SOLDIERs who were infused after they already human and developed, Sephiroth was infused with the cells while he was still in the womb, thats why he literally is basically Jenovas biological son, not just his body, but his mind as well are not human.


5. conflicting evidence to who is controlling who. sephiroth's aims seem to reflect more and more of jenovah's aims as the stroy progresses. for instance, he says he will do the same thing as "mother" and use the planet to traverse space and absorb the lifestream of other planet. remember, that his initial aim was just to become a god THROUGH the lifestream. and it is JENOVAH that gives him power, NOT the other way around.

Jenova is gone and dead, Sephiroth can do whatever he wants with Jenovas powers, he made himself the vital core of the entity, if he wants to continue Jenovas original plans he can, if he doesn't he doesnt have to, he's not a slave to her.


6. still factual that cloud beat him twice, both in his most powerful incarnation

In FF7 he fought the entire party well equipped with Materia, while he was holding back Holy at the same time, in AC it was pure PIS, Sephiroth is leagues above Cloud and if he was going all out and was using his powers Cloud would stand no chance, however; Sephiroth not using any of his powers + not going all out + CIS aurora + Cloud PISslash + Cloud being able to catch Sephiroth offguard (because Sephiroth was careless/not trying) = obvious PIS victory for Cloud.


5. how was his first defeat a "surprise" attack? i mean he was normal sephiroth, that was defeated, then he turned to bizaaro sephirtoh, who was ALSO defeated, then he turned to safer sephiroth, and was ALSO defeated. [/B]

His FF7 lost wasnt a surprise attack, read above.

His loss to Cloud in Nibelheim was the surprise. Cloud stuck a big ass sword in his back when Seph was not looking.

Sephiroth and Zack are 2 good. Sephiroth and Zack- tough fight though.

1. point STILL remains that both were conversing, so you can not bring that up as evidence for holding back

2. OR any1 whos a seph fanboy. he cudnt have tkd cloud, since that doesnt work directly on strong characters, or cloud sud have done it. the negetive lifestream WAS affecting every1 on the planet, giving them geostigmas, cloud already had it, so , how was he going to use it again??????? the wrest os baseless conjecture not backed by any evidence.

3. so , that shows again that cloud's attack speed was so fast that seph CUDNT counter it, not only beating your {seph cud have moved faster and beat cloud} theory, but also telling us that he did, even wiht all his power, have the durability to RESIST cloud's attack. remember, the team commented, that the fealing cloud had of himself, during the fight with sephiroth disappeared after they beat him. and that was why cloud was getting his ass handed in the beginning by sephiroth, and that was also why, he started giving seph trouble later on. {or r u suggesting that seph was taking it hard on cloud on the first half, and then took it easy on him in the later half???? not going for the obvious answer that he was never taking it easy, only cloud got stronger in the later part of the battle}

4. AC seph isnt 100% jenovah! what a thing to say. he is simply a memory, brought back to life by the power of jenovah. hence, he has all the same characteristics as before. after all, its not like jenovah's cells suddenly turned into sephiroth, they turned KADAJ into sephiroth, and he trun back after seph is defeated by cloud

5. again, one of the basic underlying themes of ff7 was nature vs nurture. both cloud and seph had the jenovah cells in them, and one turned out completely opposite to the other. and again, the affect of jenovah on seph and then sephiroth's own ambitions and hatred. all he wanted to do was become a god. but isnt it convenient that he chooses jenovah's course when he is reborn. and again, the basic story behind kadaj was that he wanted to KNOW who jenovah CHOSE to be her true son/successor{it was sephiroth} , and that implies control.

6. he held back holy and was done with it. you are also forgetting the role of aerith's death in holding back holy {if memory serves} . again, the advent children thing has been explained, he wasnt LEAGUES above cloud at all. thats just ur bias. he WAS going all out and he DID yet again lose to cloud and NOT willingly.

7. again, how was it a surpise attack? it was an attack which was too fast to be evaded/countered and too strong to b resisted by seph{again alluding to his power} . but it was done right infront of his face. it wasnt a stealth attack or anything.

Later on Sephiroth was overwhelming Cloud casually. Even forcing him on his feet to continue the abuse. Cloud couldn't take it anymore. Cloud was even disarmed by Sephiroth. The Character Induced Stupidity happens when Sephiroth doesn't decapitate Cloud and instead stabs his shoulder. But that is just part of Seph's character--which sucks because it makes him an idiot.

Even the creator states Sephiroth wasn't trying at all.

That is a really good point.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Seph was holding back Genesis fairly easily, although he did use some effort of course and started to take the fight a little more seriously, but there is no basis for Genesis being stronger than Seph.

Plus there's the awesome part where Sephiroth impales Cloud but Cloud overpowers him and chucks him into the Mako.
That was Cloud's only awesome scene ever.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
but there is no basis for Genesis being stronger than Seph.
I know, it was just a thought.

Well next time you have a thought, just let it go. 😛

This is so old. I still like CC so I'll comment.
I read somewhere that Genesis is stronger in DoC when he returns.
Most of the fan boys seem to think that Sephiroth never went 'all out' but if you've actually played the main FFVII you'd know that Sephiroth ONLY toys around with Cloud. Not anyone else. So it's safe to assume he wasn't holding back. Throughout the scene he was mainly deflected Genesis's blows. But clearly caught him off guard when Sephiroth did some weird thing by going down and then slicing the ground. Of course Sephiroth didn't want to kill Genesis though but he wasn't holding back.
I've also read that apparently Genesis and Sephiroth are equal in power but he was degrading so was weaker now. Hence why he lost the fights with Zack.

Goddamn, has it really been over four years?

Necro thread...this was even before Complete came out. Nothing really changed..although complete made the whole Omnislahs V5 vs Sephiroth deal a bit more clear. Sephiroth did try to defend against it but was not able to.