Originally posted by Elite HunterI still prefer arnold but its ok 😉
I'm going have to agree with Ivalice. (can I still call you that?) I don't see how Malek can be considered 3rd in the "universe," he barely beat Vader and no offense to Vader there are a few characters that we can put above him.
By the way EliteH, where do you rank vader and marek amongst the top 10 sith?
And you will prove how exactly marek has shown anything greater than that of DARTH SIDIOUS that could destroy entire armada's with his force storm
This has to be the most overblown feat in the SW Mythos. He ended up destroying most of the fleet, not all of it. Plus, they were flying over and/or docked inside of their planet's base of operations, taken completely by surprise and without shields or evasive combat actions. The Force Storm itself is impressive for what it can do, but I see a lot of people exaggerating about what it actually did do.
As far as the fight goes, in Scenario 1:
1. Sabers - Vader, 9/10.
2. Force - Vader, 10/10.
3. All-Out - Vader, 9/10.
In Scenario 2:
1. Sabers - Vader, 6/10.
2. Force - Vader, 9/10.
3. All-Out - Vader, 7/10.
(Sorry if the first part of my message sounded...harsh? It wasn't intended as any kind of personal insult.)
EDIT: Hell, while we're at it, let's just address the question that was intended for Elite. I'd say overall Vader is anywhere from 4th to seventh, beneath Sidious, Nihilus, Caedus, probably Bane, probably Kun (with the amulets), and even potentially Revan. The suit hurts him a lot, head-to-head. Marek I'd put considerably further down. His dueling skills only really peaked when he was fighting Vader, which might be because of his familiarity with Vader's style (sparring, being his apprentice and all...). What he does with the Force to stormtroopers and non-Force sensitives is impressive, but what has he shown against other powerful individuals? He picks up two pillars and smashes an unsuspecting Vader. That's not so great of a task. He controls a Star Destroyer that was already falling - that was pretty neat, but hardly combat worthy. He Force Chokes Kota, who wasn't even a member of the PT Jedi Council and thus, probably not nearly as powerful as some of the other PT era Jedi. His lightning didn't do anything to Palpatine (nothing really wrong with that, though)...he does pick him up and slam him down, but we don't even know if Sidious allowed that or if Marek simply tore through Sids' force defenses.
*Shrugs*
Originally posted by EnyalusWhy wouldn't Vader win all of them, all the time?
As far as the fight goes, in Scenario 1:1. Sabers - Vader, 9/10.
2. Force - Vader, 10/10.
3. All-Out - Vader, 9/10.In Scenario 2:
1. Sabers - Vader, 6/10.
2. Force - Vader, 9/10.
3. All-Out - Vader, 7/10.
EDIT: Hell, while we're at it, let's just address the question that was intended for Elite. I'd say overall Vader is anywhere from 4th to seventh, beneath Sidious, Nihilus, Caedus, probably Bane, probably Kun (with the amulets), and even potentially Revan. The suit hurts him a lot, head-to-head. Marek I'd put considerably further down. His dueling skills only really peaked when he was fighting Vader, which might be because of his familiarity with Vader's style (sparring, being his apprentice and all...). What he does with the Force to stormtroopers and non-Force sensitives is impressive, but what has he shown against other powerful individuals? He picks up two pillars and smashes an unsuspecting Vader. That's not so great of a task. He controls a Star Destroyer that was already falling - that was pretty neat, but hardly combat worthy. He Force Chokes Kota, who wasn't even a member of the PT Jedi Council and thus, probably not nearly as powerful as some of the other PT era Jedi. His lightning didn't do anything to Palpatine (nothing really wrong with that, though)...he does pick him up and slam him down, but we don't even know if Sidious allowed that or if Marek simply tore through Sids' force defenses.Well said.*Shrugs*
Originally posted by GideonAccording to what you've told me, Palpatine was trying to turn Marek over to the dark side. Allowing himself to be pummeled would make far more sense than him just getting repeatedly owned by someone out to kill him.
While it was painfully obvious that the Emperor wasn't attacking Marek to his greatest aptitude, what suggests that Palpatine would have allowed him to hurl him into the ceiling of the observation tower?
You note that at one point he's in "lascivious pain." He was in a similar situation with Mace Windu seventeen years earlier - when he managed to get his face melted by his own lightning while playing it up for Anakin - but he knew what he was doing.
Originally posted by Faunus
According to what you've told me, Palpatine was trying to turn Marek over to the dark side. Allowing himself to be pummeled would make far more sense than him just getting repeatedly owned by someone out to kill him.
I don't follow. Yes, Palpatine was out to convert Starkiller to the dark side of the Force, hence why (as I said), he was not trying to kill him. But obviously, since SA was out to kill him, why would the Emperor allow him to hurl him into the ceiling?
You note that at one point he's in "lascivious pain." He was in a similar situation with Mace Windu seventeen years earlier - when he managed to get his face melted by his own lightning while playing it up for Anakin - but he knew what he was doing.
He screamed in "lascivious pain" when Starkiller grappled with him and the Sith lightning channelled back into the Emperor's own body, the same ordeal as Windu, except this time, it was electrocuting his entire body, not just his face. He was in pain in both scenarios, the difference is that he simply could take it with Windu.
Originally posted by God
Why wouldn't Vader win all of them, all the time?
Well, in the first scenario Vader is fighting on a planet thick with DS Energy. Still, the occasional fluke might happen. Hence the near perfection, but not quite. In the second scenario, I just didn't want to be called a Vader fanboy. 😛 I can't see him losing to Kota at all.
Originally posted by Gideon
While it was painfully obvious that the Emperor wasn't attacking Marek to his greatest aptitude, what suggests that Palpatine would have allowed him to hurl him into the ceiling of the observation tower?
Well, I don't feel comfortable putting Marek's force abilities on par or above Yoda. If they were, what was stopping Yoda from lifting Palpatine off the rotunda and hurling him hundreds of feet to the ground? See where I'm coming from? So, it's easier for me to believe that Palpatine simply wasn't trying, as opposed to saying Marek > ROTS Yoda. Which would make me sad, lol.
Originally posted by Gideon
He screamed in "lascivious pain" when Starkiller grappled with him and the Sith lightning channelled back into the Emperor's own body, the same ordeal as Windu, except this time, it was electrocuting his entire body, not just his face. He was in pain in both scenarios, the difference is that he simply could take it with Windu.
It's my opinion that his face was already disfigured and rotting before Mace deflects the Lightning back at him, and that he was simply using a previously unknown of Force power or makeup to make him look normal. The Force Lightning being redirected would explain his face looking somewhat "melted," but it does not explain why his eyes go from blue (?) to yellow and red. Furthermore, who gets hit in the face with their own attack, yet refuses to give it up if it is seriously hurting and/or disfiguring you?
That doesn't make any sense to me. (Please, no quips about my IQ.)
Originally posted by Enyalus
This has to be the most overblown feat in the SW Mythos. He ended up destroying most of the fleet, not all of it. Plus, they were flying over and/or docked inside of their planet's base of operations, taken completely by surprise and without shields or evasive combat actions. The Force Storm itself is impressive for what it can do, but I see a lot of people exaggerating about what it actually did do.
The fleet was not caught by surprise. They knew Palpatine was there. They were even ready to start a battle. Han even told Leia that they should blast them with everything they had, but Leia said no. Besides no shield would protect against a force storm. A force storm is a hole in the fabric of space and time. There is no defense against it.
Originally posted by EnyalusBetween the time the eclipse arrived to leia docking the ship, there was ample time for the alliance to "get prepared" and counter attack.
Force Storm is a wormhole...and yes, I doubt any shield would be able to stop it. Still though.Also, Palpatine's ship appeared out of hyperspace from virtually no where. Yes, they were caught off guard.
Leia was with Luke, on Palpatine's ship, with Palpatine.
Originally posted by GideonIt definitely had the destructive potential, but Palpatine's control over it wasn't absolute or perfect. That being said, if (and I stress if because I know they were not) they had been in battle formation or spread and trying to avoid it and trying to retreat, Palps wouldn't have been able to destroy the fleet.
Correct. The only reason why Palpatine's Force Storm did not finish off the New Republic fleet was because he lost control of it due to the efforts of Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa Solo; do not presume to imply that it simply lacked the destructive capability to finish it off.
@ Enyalus
Dude, come on, it HAD to be more complicated than that.
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As for the fight, Vader he's the ultimate pimp.
Actually if you look at the pics in the comic, the ships were trying to fly away from the storm. The pull of the wormhole was so strong that it sucked the ships in. If Luke and them did not cut Sidious off his power, then the storm would of became much larger, thus making it easier to consume more ships at once.