ROTS Vader vs. ROTS Sidious

This is pre-suit ROTS Darth Vader vs. ROTS Darth Sidious. Now, before you insult me and go, "DIS IZ SPITE D00D UR DUM," I'd like to point out that there's a Dooku vs. Sidious in which over 30 people sided with Dooku being victorious.

1. Sabers Only.
2. Force Only.
3. All-Out.

Fight takes place on the surface of Malachor V.

I'll post my opinion after some others do.

I think Pre-suit Vader was stated as being 80% of Sidious, so logically my vote goes to Sidious. So many people siding with Dooku in the other thread makes no sense to me either. :/

That's Vader while in his suit. A full potential Vader would have been 200% of Sidious' power, had he not gotten injured and had been fully trained.

A full potential vader would be twice the terror of DE palpatine.

Is this presuit vader btw?

Originally posted by Enyalus
This is pre-suit ROTS Darth Vader vs. ROTS Darth Sidious. Now, before you insult me and go, "DIS IZ SPITE D00D UR DUM," I'd like to point out that there's a Dooku vs. Sidious in which over 30 people sided with Dooku being victorious.

1. Sabers Only.
2. Force Only.
3. All-Out.

Fight takes place on the surface of Malachor V.

I'll post my opinion after some others do.

ROTS Anakin was not as powerful as ROTS Sidious, that's all there is to it. Give someone who has such control over the Dark as Palpatine, hand him Malachor's power and...

Vader's not got the Force-power here, but saber skills I think he's got over Sidious.

Ah, see TG...that's about what I would have given out.

1. Sabers- Vader, 7/10.
2. Force - Sidious, 10/10.
3. All-Out - Tie, 5/10.

That would be my general consensus.

ROTS Vader had not yet reached his potential yet. He still had a long way to go. Yoda said Kenobi was not strong enough to fight Sidious. So Sidious would win, because he had a far more control and more mastery over the force.

Don't be surprised if you do get insults, because some people seem to get a little too serious over these debates. I however think it is very immature to insult others over a debate.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
ROTS Vader had not yet reached his potential yet. He still had a long way to go. Yoda said Kenobi was not strong enough to fight Sidious. So Sidious would win, because he had a far more control and more mastery over the force.

Don't be surprised if you do get insults, because some people seem to get a little too serious over these debates. I however think it is very immature to insult others over a debate.

And while there's nothing wrong with the results you just ascertained, there's that A>B>C argument again. In Star Wars, there can be extenuating circumstances. It's like saying Mace defeated Palpatine, so Mace can defeat Yoda becuase Palpatine defeated Yoda. That doesn't take in Vaapad, Shatterpoint, the environment etc.

And before you take this as an insult, contemplate the option that it's constructive criticism. In fact, contemplate all possible, feasible options in a Vs. fight.

If you want to see great A>B>C Logic, here goes:

Dooku was fast enough and skilled enough to compete in a duel with Yoda, more than once. Yoda is as fast as Sidious and were basically even in their duel. Good Anakin destroyed Dooku by not only being stronger than Dooku but faster. As George Lucas apparently stated, the Dark Side is stronger than the Light Side (source: Gideon). Therefore, pre-suit Vader is stronger than 'in the zone' Anakin. Strong enough to tool the highly touted Jedi Battlemaster Cin Drallig one-handed while using his other hand to kill Cin's best pupil.

Thus, Vader takes Sidious in sabers. By a fair margin.

😄

Windu actually really did not beat Sidious. Sidious faked weakness as stated by George Lucas in the commentary. Besides Sidious, Windu, and Yoda are all very close. Kenobi would never be close to Sidious's level, or Yoda would not of told him that he would never be strong enough to fight Sidious. Windu vs Yoda would make a great arguement because they are both very close. Kenobi vs Sidious would not be a good arguement.

he faked weakness after being genuinely overpowered and defeated by mace.... (really)

I go by what is said and done in the movies, or other canon sources. If that is A>B>C logic well than that is the only thing we can go by. We can not just go by assumptions.

Originally posted by truejedi
he faked weakness after being genuinely overpowered and defeated by mace.... (really)

That is very much so debateable.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That is very much so debateable.

I not saying Windu didn't beat Sidious in dueling, but there are good arguements that say he didn't, and there are good arguements that say he did. I don't think Windu could have killed him even without Anakin. Maybe Windu is the better duelist.

Originally posted by Enyalus
"DIS IZ SPITE D00D UR DUM,"

No way vader wins any of this.

Eh, he could win the saber. Could.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That is very much so debateable.

George Lucas has, to my knowledge stated that "Mace overpowered Sideous". So no, Mace genuinely had him beat.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
George Lucas has, to my knowledge stated that "Mace overpowered Sideous". So no, Mace genuinely had him beat.

Can you name the source? Again im not arguing that Windu did not win the saber duel. But just because you win a saber duel does not mean you win the entire fight. It is clear that Mace was struggling against the lightning, and would have eventually been overpowered by it had Sidious not stopped the attack. So i say where Sidious could not beat him with a saber, he could have beat him with the force, even without Anakin's help

Considering Sideous was melting his own face and begging for mercy and eventually cut off his own stream of lightning, I see no reason to not assume that Mace's Vapaad super-conductive loop didn't just pwn Sidoeus. As for the source, I'm sure Gideon probably has it.