Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Sidious got beat in the saber battle; the novel says that Mace was 'overpowered' and was 'choking on ozone', and according to Lucas, Sidious feigned his weakness. If the force fight continued, Mace would've died.
Ah, there's where I disagree. Mace would've lost. Sidious would have died.
You left out the part about Anakin standing right there, and looking up to Mace as a role model. When Sidious hits Yoda with his lightning, it only knocks him out for a few moments. When Sidious hits Mace with his full powered Force Lightning - even completely defenseless and in sever agony from having his arm cut off - he isn't kill by the lightning. He's killed by the fall. So Sidious' lightning in ROTS doesn't kill or disintegrate powerful Force-users instantly. Not even close.
In this situation, his saber would be pushed back, he'd have to give ground and/or drop to his knees (or something), and would still have his Force shields in place.
Once it's clear Sidious is the aggressor and not feigning any weakness, I Have no doubt Anakin would've stepped in on Mace's side. Remember, just moments before he said he would have liked to kill Palpatine himself.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Ah, there's where I disagree. Mace would've lost. Sidious would have died.You left out the part about Anakin standing right there, and looking up to Mace as a role model. When Sidious hits Yoda with his lightning, it only knocks him out for a few moments. When Sidious hits Mace with his full powered Force Lightning - even completely defenseless and in sever agony from having his arm cut off - he isn't kill by the lightning. He's killed by the fall. So Sidious' lightning in ROTS doesn't kill or disintegrate powerful Force-users instantly. Not even close.
In this situation, his saber would be pushed back, he'd have to give ground and/or drop to his knees (or something), and would still have his Force shields in place.
Once it's clear Sidious is the aggressor and not feigning any weakness, I Have no doubt Anakin would've stepped in on Mace's side. Remember, just moments before he said he would have liked to kill Palpatine himself.
You'll have to prove that Mace wasn't killed by the force of the lightning; when hitting Yoda, it was a small gout, and while hitting Mace, it was a lengthened one, obviously, probably in order to torture him; Mace was then thrown out of the window. You can't prove that he didn't already die when he was blasted out of the window.
It's up to speculation, honestly, but we know that Sidious is capable of slaughtering people with lightning, and Mace doesn't even come close in regards to a force contest.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
You'll have to prove that Mace wasn't killed by the force of the lightning; when hitting Yoda, it was a small gout, and while hitting Mace, it was a lengthened one, obviously, probably in order to torture him; Mace was then thrown out of the window. You can't prove that he didn't already die when he was blasted out of the window.
Erm, he was screaming with his face contorted in pain as he was thrown from the window? And no, I doubt Sidious wanted to torture him. As he states, "Power! Unlimited POWER!" Which, we can probably take as him unleashing the full force of his lightning upon Mace, allowing him to feel the full strength of the Dark Side.
EDIT: And yeah, capable of slaughtering people. But he doesn't display anything to indicate he can kill strong Force users with his lightning instantly or even close to instantly in the movies.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Considering Sideous was melting his own face and begging for mercy and eventually cut off his own stream of lightning, I see no reason to not assume that Mace's Vapaad super-conductive loop didn't just pwn Sidoeus. As for the source, I'm sure Gideon probably has it.
As i have proven before the lightning did not affect Sidious in the sense that it hurted him. Sidious "begging for mercy" was all fake. Windu struggling against the lightning was not fake.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Erm, he was screaming with his face contorted in pain as he was thrown from the window? And no, I doubt Sidious wanted to torture him. As he states, "Power! Unlimited [b]POWER!" Which, we can probably take as him unleashing the full force of his lightning upon Mace, allowing him to feel the full strength of the Dark Side.EDIT: And yeah, capable of slaughtering people. But he doesn't display anything to indicate he can kill strong Force users with his lightning instantly or even close to instantly in the movies. [/B]
Did you miss the part where Mace was screaming in agony?
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Originally posted by Crimzon
Did you miss the part where Mace was screaming in agony?
In my experience, one has to be living and breathing in order to scream. 😉
Originally posted by TG
I doubt whether it matters if Palpatine's Lightning kills instantly or not. What are the chances of someone conjuring a defence when Palpatine's lightning is wrecking their body?
What are the chances of Anakin standing by and watching Sidious kill Mace? The reason he helped Sidious in the first place was because from Anakin's viewpoint, Mace was being unfair, about to assassinate him, and held a clear advantage in their battle. With that situation reversed, I very seriously doubt Anakin would allow Sidious to harm Mace further or kill him, without stepping in on Mace's behalf.
Recall, Anakin had wanted to kill Palpatine just minutes before announcing his findings to Windu. So the intent is already there, as is the anger.
I'm in no way saying that Mace can beat Sidious in an all-out fight. I'm saying, in the same situation depicted in ROTS, without Sidious holding back - Mace loses the fight. But Sidious is the one who dies.
Originally posted by EnyalusSo how does Mace lose without dieing?In my experience, one has to be living and breathing in order to scream. 😉
What are the chances of Anakin standing by and watching Sidious kill Mace? The reason he helped Sidious in the first place was because from Anakin's viewpoint, Mace was being unfair, about to assassinate him, and held a clear advantage in their battle. With that situation reversed, I very seriously doubt Anakin would allow Sidious to harm Mace further or kill him, without stepping in on Mace's behalf.
Recall, Anakin had wanted to kill Palpatine just minutes before announcing his findings to Windu. So the intent is already there, as is the anger.
I'm in no way saying that Mace can beat Sidious in an all-out fight. I'm saying, in the same situation depicted in ROTS, without Sidious holding back - Mace loses the fight. But Sidious is the one who dies. [/B]
Originally posted by EnyalusIn my experience, one has to be living and breathing in order to scream. 😉
Sorry, I misread your post.
Silly, silly, crazy me.
Anyways, yes, Mace was screaming- however, the fact that he stayed still without moving (and was then hurled easily) implies that Palpatine wanted to torture him for a few seconds, in the whole "Haha! I win!" thing. He's an arrogant, narcisstic maniac; it's his nature to gloat over his victory.
His screams are no longer heard when he is out of the window, too.