Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
With nothing at all to restrain them but what it would be nice if people did . . .
It is nice that you freely admit that it is solely the actions of the state that keep you from doing evil to your neighbour?
as smug as this is going to sound, what does that say about your religion?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It exists. If it didn't we would already have an anarchist utopia.
James Madison put it best; "If men were angels, no government would be necessary"
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The "if" is the problem. You can't kick a ladder out from under someone and say it's okay because he won't be hurt if he learns to fly.
yes, hence why I call it a political ideology and not a science.
Originally posted by Aster Phoenix
Possibly or in a bad economy their just might be a lack of jobs available.
I think my statement about employment being akin to a right should answer my thoughts on this
Originally posted by Aster Phoenix
He's not really allowed to because if the child starves, then he goes to prison.
again, I'm telling you something that would be a good point against anarchist society.
Originally posted by Aster PhoenixNo, the purpose it serves is that many low wage jobs stop existing or are outsourced to other countries...resulting in hightened unemployment.
But that is the purpose it serves, it makes sure that employers pay employees enough so that they can at least scrape by. As I said I think it should be higher.
But yours sounds nicer...even though it's bullshit.
Originally posted by inimalist
It is nice that you freely admit that it is solely the actions of the state that keep you from doing evil to your neighbour?
I don't follow.
Originally posted by inimalist
as smug as this is going to sound, what does that say about your religion?
Nothing. I operate on the basis that because no action is clearly attributable to God his existence or nonexistence is meaningless unless you select a worldly or personal definition of God.
Originally posted by inimalist
James Madison put it best; "If men were angels, no government would be necessary"yes, hence why I call it a political ideology and not a science.
Hence my criticism of anarchy as a concept.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually, not really.
Completely. If the assumptions you make about human nature were true we'd have long since built a utopia free of money and violence.
Originally posted by Bardock42
But assuming that people will work for nothing at all, but a (possibly) alright live...is ridiculous.
No they work because the other option is "you disappear".
Originally posted by inimalist
I think my statement about employment being akin to a right should answer my thoughts on this
When you make it a right then people will demand a job they want.
No, the purpose it serves is that many low wage jobs stop existing or are outsourced to other countries...resulting in hightened unemployment.
If there is no minimum wage then what is in place to make sure that employees are paid enough to get by?
Originally posted by inimalistWell while the state's actions don't necessarily "prevent people's evil" against others per se.
It is nice that you freely admit that it is solely the actions of the state that keep you from doing evil to your neighbour?
The state's actions do provide some sort of buffer against people's apathy. All that's necessary for "evil" to triumph is for the "good" to do nothing.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Completely. If the assumptions you make about human nature were true we'd have long since built a utopia free of money and violence.
No, not really.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No they work because the other option is "you disappear".
Somehow doubt that would work that well. What exactly is your purpose with your government by the way? It's obviously not to make the life of the people good...what do you base your system on?
Originally posted by Bardock42
No, not really.
What a wonderful counter argument.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Somehow doubt that would work that well. What exactly is your purpose with your government by the way? It's obviously not to make the life of the people good...what do you base your system on?
To keep the people alive and progress society as a whole rather than further the interests of individuals.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I don't follow.
you seem to be implying that the state is necessary in protecting people from would be evildoers.
I personalized it in order to make the point more salient, as I don't envision you as someone who is overly violent or out to get others...
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Hence my criticism of anarchy as a concept.
yes, I agree with it on most accounts. Nothing is perfect, and your criticisms have done little to move me from the moral positions that are the foundation for my anarchist beliefs. Just because "evil people" will exist, in my mind, should not prevent those who are not from being as free as they can. Certainly the existence of evil does not justify government, especially to someone who thinks the concept of authority over another person is immoral.