What would your polictical party be? Should we abolish the political spectrum?

Originally posted by Bardock42
What is "happening in nature" to you?

In the real world. Not an imaginary utopia someone dreamed up.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, for the majority of people living in a government is the norm and they can't see how anarchy would work. Pretty sure I made that point earlier. That's why no anarchist I know believes things would be better if all governments would just be abolished immediately. Why exactly do you make me repeat myself constantly?

Because you're missing the point. The same people you want to have run an anarchy build governments. Through all of human history (save two or three examples) people have built governments. No evidence exists that anarchy works on a large scale. No evidence exists that people want, wanted or will ever want anarchy. No evidence exists that the majority of people have the personalities and skills needed to make anarchistic utopias work.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In the real world. Not an imaginary utopia someone dreamed up.

Yeah. Inimalist gave two examples.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Because you're missing the point. The same people you want to have run an anarchy build governments. Through all of human history (save two or three examples) people have built governments. No evidence exists that anarchy works on a large scale. No evidence exists that people want, wanted or will ever want anarchy. No evidence exists that the majority of people have the personalities and skills needed to make anarchistic utopias work.

That same argument can be made for your ideology.

But specifically:

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Because you're missing the point.

Doubt it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The same people you want to have run an anarchy build governments.

No, the same people I want to live in an anarchist society are the children and grand children of people who were born into a government run society and taught from birth how the government is the only way to safety and prosperity.....

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Through all of human history (save two or three examples) people have built governments.

Governments have evolved. They weren't decidedly built by all people. And no one alive in the US today ever build a government they just maintained the one they were born into.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

No evidence exists that anarchy works on a large scale.

It's a thought experiment, indeed.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

No evidence exists that people want, wanted or will ever want anarchy.

Wrong. There's evidence that people wanted and that people want anarchy. Granted at the moment a small part of all people, but there are some that do.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No evidence exists that the majority of people have the personalities and skills needed to make anarchistic utopias work.

That's based on it being a thought experiment. There is plenty of facts that people have the personalities and skills needed to make big parts of anarcho-capitalist societies work. But since it is a thought experiment it is not a 100% deal. But, just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't happen, that's an extremely flawed line of reasoning.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah. Inimalist gave two examples.

I'd ask if you had any idea of how many counter examples there are but you'd probably ignore that anyway.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, the same people I want to live in an anarchist society are the children and grand children of people who were born into a government run society and taught from birth how the government is the only way to safety and prosperity.....

So you want to replace what you see as evil boogie-monster brainwashing with nice kid friendly brainwashing? ****ing brilliant.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Governments have evolved. They weren't decidedly built by all people. And no one alive in the US today ever build a government they just maintained the one they were born into.

People, as in humans in general.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It's a thought experiment, indeed.

Wrong. There's evidence that people wanted and that people want anarchy. Granted at the moment a small part of all people, but there are some that do.

That's based on it being a thought experiment. There is plenty of facts that people have the personalities and skills needed to make big parts of anarcho-capitalist societies work. But since it is a thought experiment it is not a 100% deal. But, just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can happen, that's an extremely flawed line of reasoning.

I suppose you believe devoutly in God and are willing to let people die by guessing his whims?

My issue with this is anarchy is chaos, uncertainty.

The main attraction for me with government run programs and services is that you know they will be there. No one is saying they are perfect or that they do a perfect job, but with the government enforcing their existence, you know they will be there in some form of another when you need them. If you leave it up to the private sector, the you are taking a risk that they won't be there, and that some will only be there if you can afford them to be.

As has been shown, if your house is burning, or you've just been the victim of a crime or your sick, the last thing you should have to think of is "Do I have enough money to pay to get help?"

And yes I find the idea of the government taking money to pay for these services preferable to people dying and not getting help simply because they can't pay for it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, please stop being childish. a) there are at least three supporters b) no one is denying that we can't predict human nature, but there are a few examples of where it worked for a while as well as theories that have never been tested as well as the parts that are already in place in our world today c) no anarcho-capitalist I know claims that anarchy would be perfect for people right now that are cradled by a government from birth to death d) what you initially said is still ****ing stupid and you should be cowering in a corner crying in embarassment.

Oh shush up, Ricky Rebel.

Ok, so you have examples of where it worked...kinda, for a while. That's still no basis to assume it is a path that's sensible for any civilisation that wishes to work properly. What happened to those ones that worked fairly? They stopped working, or didn't work properly, there's a reason for this. Anarchy doesn't work.

All you ultimately want is the government to be gone, you don't actually have any solid, definitely workable ideas as to how anarchy would work. You have ideas that even you have not thought through properly.

What I initially said I still believe; anarchy is stupid, childish and pathetic, and you have to question the kind of mind that believes in it.

-AC

What I initially said, I still believe; Alpha Centauri is stupid, childish and pathetic, and you have to question the kind of mind that believes in him.

When you don't have a hand puppet signature, we can chat about those traits.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh shush up, Ricky Rebel.

Good one. Seems to be your general defense whenever I point out your idiocy...I guess you just can't bring arguments.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Ok, so you have examples of where it worked...kinda, for a while. That's still no basis to assume it is a path that's sensible for any civilisation that wishes to work properly. What happened to those ones that worked fairly? They stopped working, or didn't work properly, there's a reason for this. Anarchy doesn't work.

Yeah, it's a theory that might work. And it is an extension of libertarianism which factually has advantages. Your "Anarchy doesn't work, cause I won't listen LALALALALA" really doesn't prove anything.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
All you ultimately want is the government to be gone, you don't actually have any solid, definitely workable ideas as to how anarchy would work. You have ideas that even you have not thought through properly.

No, I want the government to decrease in magnitude and then, if workable, and if people want it, to cease to exist. It's indeed an just an ideology but to disregard it completely for....oh right, no reason at all is childish and ignorant...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What I initially said I still believe; anarchy is stupid, childish and pathetic, and you have to question the kind of mind that believes in it.

-AC

Yeah, and you are still an idiot for it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Good one. Seems to be your general defense whenever I point out your idiocy...I guess you just can't bring arguments.

And your defense seems to be "If I take everything he has said seriously, then everyone will be like 'Oooh look at him.'.".

I brought an argument; anarchy doesn't and wouldn't work. Where have you refuted it in this 20 plus page thread? "In my mind I have an idea that might work.", ok, great. So where does that leave us, after you've told me I'm stupid for saying anarchy is stupid and unworkable? You have examples of it working...for a while, and then what happened?

People cannot be trusted to not have a system of government, it's not a matter of them depending on it, it's a matter of the government being absolutely necessary. You obviously have too much faith in people.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, it's a theory that might work. And it is an extension of libertarianism which factually has advantages. Your "Anarchy doesn't work, cause I won't listen LALALALALA" really doesn't prove anything.

It doesn't, so it's a good job I didn't do that.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, I want the government to decrease in magnitude and then, if workable, and if people want it, to cease to exist. It's indeed an just an ideology but to disregard it completely for....oh right, no reason at all is childish and ignorant...

There's a reason it exists, and will continue to, in your mind only. If the issue is the government, why isn't the solution; let's just have a really good system of government? Why is the eventual eradication of it, necessary?

I'm not suggesting you're wrong for saying governments need changes, but then why don't you aspire to just having a great government? If the answer is, "Cos it'll never work.", then why are you an anarchist? That won't work either.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, and you are still an idiot for it.

Says the childish anarchist.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
When you don't have a hand puppet signature, we can chat about those traits.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

And your defense seems to be "If I take everything he has said seriously, then everyone will be like 'Oooh look at him.'.".

More nonsense

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I brought an argument; anarchy doesn't and wouldn't work. Where have you refuted it in this 20 plus page thread? "In my mind I have an idea that might work.", ok, great. So where does that leave us, after you've told me I'm stupid for saying anarchy is stupid and unworkable?

Anarchy works on small scale. There's no prove it wouldn't work on larger scale. And no one claims it's a sure way it's a possible theory and it might not work, but you disregard it without even knowing anything about it, which is just sheer idiocy. And you apparently didn't even read the thread, so I don't really know why I am still talking to you. Your argument is "Anarchy doesn't work, because I don't believe it" and then you go on to call people that believe in it having merit names. Good debating there. Anyways, bring some actual arguments to the table and stop with pretending your personal opinion is fact and I will reply to you again, I'm not going to entertain your inane, self absorbed rants again.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It doesn't, so it's a good job I didn't do that.

Sure

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's a reason it exists, and will continue to, in your mind only. If the issue is the government, why isn't the solution; let's just have areally good system of government? Why is the eventual eradication of it, necessary?

It is not. It's just a possibility that some think could be workable. As I said before (and you woud know if you read the thread instead of being a baby) I am libertarian and want the government to be reformed in a way that's workable, and ultimately should it seem possible be abandoned altogether.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Says the childish anarchist.

-AC

Flattery when coming from you

You will admittedly need a new strategy if your claims of me being childish, not you, are to hold any water here.

-AC

Originally posted by Bardock42
Anarchy works on small scale. There's no prove it wouldn't work on larger scale. And no one claims it's a sure way it's a possible theory and it might not work, but you disregard it without even knowing anything about it, which is just sheer idiocy.

I didn't know nothing, I expressed it in an extreme way. My belief is, and has always been, that extreme or not, it's a stupid idea and you're stupid to believe in it. You disagree, so that's where it leaves us. I would argue that the fact it has never really worked outside of your mind is good enough proof.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And you apparently didn't even read the thread, so I don't really know why I am still talking to you. Your argument is "Anarchy doesn't work, because I don't believe it" and then you go on to call people that believe in it having merit names. Good debating there. Anyways, bring some actual arguments to the table and stop with pretending your personal opinion is fact and I will reply to you again, I'm not going to entertain your inane, self absorbed rants again.

It doesn't work because it's unworkable, as has been illustrated throughout this thread. Your decision to believe I meant something else is your own, but don't suggest it was me who said it.

It's not "Anarchy doesn't work cos I don't believe in it.", it's "I don't believe in it because it doesn't work.".

You'll entertain as long as I'm here because it's what you do. You're the one with the sore nerve, not me.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It is not. It's just a possibility that some think could be workable. As I said before (and you woud know if you read the thread instead of being a baby) I am libertarian and want the government to be reformed in a way that's workable, and ultimately should it seem possible be abandoned altogether.

I am aware of that. You say "possibility", I say it's a fantasy that some people think could be workable on internet messageboards, that much is clear. It wouldn't, work, that's MY point.

It's safe for you, simply because you know it'll never happen on a major scale, and fail, so you won't have to concede your stance.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I didn't know nothing, I expressed it in an extreme way. My belief is, and has always been, that extreme or not, it's a stupid idea and you're stupid to believe in it. You disagree, so that's where it leaves us. I would argue that the fact it has never really worked outside of your mind is good enough proof.

It isn't actually proof though, is it? No it isn't.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It doesn't work because it's unworkable, as has been illustrated throughout this thread. Your decision to believe I meant something else is your own, but don't suggest it was me who said it.

Actually, that has not been illustrated in this thread. In this thread we saw a lot of people say stupid stuff (mostly you) and bringing up points that could be a problem in an anarchist society and then we saw anarchists giving their opinion of why it would not be a problem and how it could work. But maybe you read a different thread in your head.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It's not "Anarchy doesn't work cos I don't believe in it.", it's "I don't believe in it because it doesn't work.".

No. That's not it. You just blatantly deny it's workability without any prove nor actual understanding of anarchist theory, quite pathetic, really.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You'll entertain as long as I'm here because it's what you do. You're the one with the sore nerve, not me.

Hahaha

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I am aware of that. You say "possibility", I say it's a fantasy that some people think could be workable on internet messageboards, that much is clear. It wouldn't, work, that's MY point.

Yeah. It's your point. Points have to be supported by evidence and logic though, yours is not, it's just an opinion and not a very good one at that, especially since it did work for a time.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It's safe for you, simply because you know it'll never happen on a major scale, and fail, so you won't have to concede your stance.

-AC

Nah.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It isn't actually proof though, is it? No it isn't.

Haha, well, it's as good as. You still haven't given me the examples of where it has worked, and why it failed. I'd like you to do so.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually, that has not been illustrated in this thread. In this thread we saw a lot of people say stupid stuff (mostly you) and bringing up points that could be a problem in an anarchist society and then we saw anarchists giving their opinion of why it would not be a problem and how it could work. But maybe you read a different thread in your head.

Anarchists do that, if this thread is to be believed, by saying things like "Nah." in reply to legitimate counters. That's what I've seen, personally.

"I believe it would work, based on all I've said here.", a reply is given, "Nah.".

Originally posted by Bardock42
No. That's not it. You just blatantly deny it's workability without any prove nor actual understanding of anarchist theory, quite pathetic, really.

Even if I had no understanding, I have read this thread and it still sounds like a load of childish, fantastical bs that would never actually work.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah. It's your point. Points have to be supported by evidence and logic though, yours is not, it's just an opinion and not a very good one at that, especially since it did work for a time.

And then what happened?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nah.

How predictable.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Haha, well, it's as good as. You still haven't given me the examples of where it has worked, and why it failed. I'd like you to do so.

Anarchists do that, if this thread is to be believed, by saying things like "Nah." in reply to legitimate counters. That's what I've seen, personally.

"I believe it would work, based on all I've said here.", a reply is given, "Nah.".

Even if I had no understanding, I have read this thread and it still sounds like a load of childish, fantastical bs that would never actually work.

And then what happened?

How predictable.

-AC

Meh, you just don't understand what Anarchists have been saying. No biggie. Maybe when you educated yourself we can continue talking.

How predictable.

I ask for examples, and you reply with none, instead choosing to say I need to be educated on the matter.

I'll laugh at that, because you are probably not smart enough to understand why that's funny.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How predictable.

-AC

Anyways, if you want to educate yourself just go here http://simplyanarchy.com/ check it out for yourself. And maybe if you have some actual arguments based on evidence, we talk more, kay?

That is honestly a joke, I assume?

"Governments are morally wrong.", "Anarchy means no government."?

Really?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That is honestly a joke, I assume?

"Governments are morally wrong.", "Anarchy means no government."?

Really?

-AC

Oh you read the page. You must be fast. 5000 words a second?