Kyle Katarn and Kenobi vs. Kas'im and Kaox Krul

The time for the battle between the Four Great K's has come, all of them at their peak...

Combatants: Kyle "Who's-ur-daddy" Katarn and Obi-Wan "z0MG!" Kenobi versus "The Perfectionist" Kas'im and "The Dark Killer" Kaox Krul.

Setting: Echo Base hanger on Hoth, as seen in Empire Strikes Back.

Rules: A traditional lightsaber-only battle; passive use of the Force is allowed, of course.

You have my personal guarantee that this hasn't been done before or your post back!

....Gah, this is hard for me. Kyle's a great duelist, but I think Kas'im has him beat. The issue is Kenobi. He's supposed to be a great swordman and master of Soresu. And as a PT era Jedi, he should be exceptional.

...But Krul was simply amazing. And his final duel was one of the best I can remember.

If team two doesn't win on skill, they at least win via badassness. 7-8/10.

If being a PT-era Jedi was grounds for being exceptional, than the previous generations bow before Coleman Trebor. Obi-Wan is what he is by his own merit, Sidious is the ultimate inheritor of the Sith legacy and the reason the Force is out of balance, Anakin is the Chosen One, Dooku is simply prodigious, and Yoda is nine hundred years old. The TotJ has Nomi Sunrider (picked up a lightsaber for the first time and wielded it "like a master"😉, Exar Kun (duh), Ulic Qel-Droma (his day's Skywalker), the thousand year-old Odan-Urr, the six hundred year-old Vodo Bass, and several other truly ancient Jedi Masters and notable Jedi Knights.

The KotOR period had "Heart of the Force" Revan, the talented Malak, the apparently exceptional Kavar (who gained even the Mandalorians' respect), the "walking dead" Sion, and the veritable titan, Nihilus.

Even the ancient Sith had the immensely powerful Simus, the even greater Naga Sadow, and "the most powerful of the most powerful, the Dark Lord of the Sith," Marka Ragnos.

So yeah.

Now, on-topic. Kas'im could almost certainly (eventually) defeat either Kenobi or Katarn in individual combat, but I'm not sure how Krul would fare.

Krul's the weak spot here, I'd say. while as a pure swordsman, Kas'im would probably be able to take Katarn or Kenobi, together, he'd be in horrible troucle and each would be capable of giving him a decent fight.

Kas'im's trump card is rendered a bit moot given both Obi and Kyle have experience against Jar'Kai users

Incase people need a better idea of who Krul is, here are some quotes (Hand typed, so be appreciative 😛):

'He wore black body armor of his own design. It consisted of protective padding and composite plates crafted into an intricate pattern that glorified the Sith and the Brotherhood of Darkness. He had also used Sith alchemy to imbue the armor with dark side energy, creating a barrier that provided some protection against the abilities of the Jedi.'

'At his side, clipped to his belt, hung the lightsaber that he had used to kill more than a hundred foes. Kaox hadn't constructed the weapon. He had earned the lightsaber, taking it from the still-grasping hand of the first Jedi he had killed in personal combat.' [This means that those hundred foes were all Jedi, I think...]

"The Marauder is powerful, Dree. Don't underestimate him. He knows that we've been following him since Harpori, and we've both felt his hatred -- his darkness -- through the Force. Something tells me that this isn't the place to confront him."

'He let the dark side swell inside him, using it to mask his own presence while simultaneously enhancing his senses to stay alert.'

'Dree caught movement out of the corner of her eye. It was as though a shadow had disengaged itself from the forest and was moving toward her at lightspeed. She turned toward the dark blur, reacting with Jedi reflexes but still feeling like she was standing still.'

'Dree tried to steady her voice, but she knew she was no match for the Marauder.'

His Force speed was fast enough to come within a few meters of a speeder bike that was running wide-open. After he had been struck with it and knocked down.

His final duel lasted for literally hours, part of that time it being 2 on 1 against the Jedi and her padawon. He was also able to fight lightsaber to lightsaber while using the Force to hover above a lake. And his duel there turned the entire place into a place of the Dark Side, 'he looked out over the bleak lake, trying to make sense of what happened. All he found in the Force, though, was darkness and despair.'

*nods*

Just the pool became a Dark Side nexus due to both Maru and Krul there, to be technical, btw. As power goes, Krul was good in the Brotherhood...but do recall he's below Kaan, Kopecz and Qordis-and Bane, of course.

isn't katarn getting a little sold short here? i get the feeling that his short duel with Caedus kinda shot him down in terms of pure power. This is the guy though, that luke puts in charge of the Jedi whenever he's not around. He's Mace Windu of the NJO in other words. "Second best buttkicking guy in the galaxy"--SLJ
Kas'im is a sword specialist, weapon's master, so i wouldn't just write him off either... but Katarn is too good to just be an afterthought in this duel. That said, Kenobi probably surpasses Katarn, and i can't see Kasi'm breaking a defense that is probably the best in the history of star wars. (in pure defensive terms) So i would give it to Jedi here. I think we are dealing with much higher ranked jedi than they've been given credit for so far.

Yeah, I actually think Kyle could fare well against Kas'im and perhaps even beat him. He did, after all, defeat the Seven Dark Jedi--all of whom are described as powerful and clearly exceptional duelists (the leader, Jerec, is the best among them and one of the greatest of the era). Did I forget to mention that this was with little-to-no formal training at all? Because it was. So his natural talent with a blade is pretty much the best shown in the mythos, next only to Kun's, Ulic's or Bane's perhaps.

He also beats Jerec when he gets a boost from the Valley of the Jedi. According to Qu Rahn, having the power of that would be greater than anything the universe had ever seen. This is a guy trained by Yoda and knows of Palpatine--take it for what it's worth.

Kyle is now a fully trained Jedi and Battlemaster of the NJO. As LS mentioned, he also knows of Jar'Kai very well. What are some reasons that Kas'im would be able to actually defeat him?

All of the Dark Jedi were second tier Force users at best. Jerec is only out of that category when he goes to Ruusan. Moreover, he beats him only after cutting him off from the Valley's power.

I agree that Kyle's skills are exceptional, But Kas'im was able to make Bane look silly. And is was the greatest duelist in the galaxy during his era. Now, could have been a crummy era, but I doubt it. Kyle isn't even third when it comes to his.

I know that that logic isn't so great, but...all of it's pretty circumstantial.

Kas'im did so because he attacked with a form Bane had no idea of. Considering Kyle's era consists of Luke, Kyp, Jacen at the like, that's a really bad argument.

Consider: Kas'im's era included Johun Othone. That drops it a tier or five.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Just the pool became a Dark Side nexus due to both Maru and Krul there, to be technical, btw. As power goes, Krul was good in the Brotherhood...but do recall he's below Kaan, Kopecz and Qordis-and Bane, of course.

If any of them, it'd be Qordis. Kopecz seems the rare 'competent' Sith of the Brotherhood and Bane believed the spirits had vanished from Korriban because there were no Sith powerful enough.

And Kaan's power seems mainly in manipulation, too...have we ever seen him fight?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Consider: Kas'im's era included Johun Othone. That drops it a tier or five.

And Kyle's era includes Corran Horn, who wouldn't even be able to telekinetically throw the brick that Naga Sadow did. 😛 Plus he's much older.

Originally posted by Faunus
Kaan was powerful even by Bane's standards, Kopecz was a badass and the most calculating Sith Lord in the Brotherhood, and Qordis was just manipulative. I'd say Krul could probably take at least one of them in a duel, since he probably did more front-line fighting anyway.

True. Krul was extremely devoted to Kaan and loved front line fighting and killing Jedi. He wasn't really cut out to be in a leadership position and deal with Sith politics. I think he could beat Qordis and probably Kaan, given that Kaan doesn't seem the warrior type. He was dangerous enough to warrent the Jedi sending a special hunter after him to personally assassinate him. Plus, that whole "killing over a hundred" Jedi thing. Which is roughly the amount of Sith that Raskta killed, and we saw how good she was.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And Kyle's era includes Corran Horn, who wouldn't even be able to telekinetically throw the brick that Naga Sadow did. 😛 Plus he's much older.

He was dangerous enough to warrent the Jedi sending a special hunter after him to personally assassinate him. Plus, that whole "killing over a hundred" Jedi thing. Which is roughly the amount of Sith that Raskta killed, and we saw how good she was.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
If any of them, it'd be Qordis. Kopecz seems the rare 'competent' Sith of the Brotherhood and Bane believed the spirits had vanished from Korriban because there were no Sith powerful enough.

And Kaan's power seems mainly in manipulation, too...have we ever seen him fight?

"He was many things... but not weak." Something like that.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Raskta killed way more than a hundred. Krul was an assassin primarily...if they sent Raskta after him, for one, I doubt he'd have lasted long

And Krul was known as "The Marauder" for a reason. Most of his killing was up front and messy.

Recall Kaan's not a BM master though and the strain on him was enormous...even then, it was up in the air till Kopecz took things into his own hands.

As far as power goes, Kaan likely had to do some work to carve out his power as a Sith Lord during the whole Sith Civil War...though he's frequently described as a coward who preaches a 'hypocritical' philosophy.

Right. I mean, Kaan is powerful, without question. Does that translate to combat prowess? Say he only knows one saber style. Or that his precog is crappy because he focuses most of his powers on mind manipulation (of which Battle Meditation would fall under).

Kaan got his position by being powerful, but smooth. I can definitely see him pitting several extremely powerful people against each other, getting them to kill themselves off, then taking the leadership role. Much as Bane did.

If Kaan didn't have some ability, he'd never have been able to become a Sith Lord and in effect Dark Lord of the Sith....the Brotherhood was formed after Kaan emerged as the dominant Sith after a particularly violent civil War with Qordis and Kopecz as supporters.

Don't forget, Kaan was an ex-Jedi Master, too

Kaan seems to imply that Kas'im is a better fighter than him, when wanting Bane hunted down and killed.

Nothing explicit, though.