Elaine vs. PR Beyonder

Originally posted by lannfear

why was shooter = toaa...
read an interview where he said

that during his time as editor and chief at marvel
there was 4-5 people above him in authority/power

......so much for being toaa....

Only Stan Lee was technically above Shooter.

In Marvel Comics, Shooter became the Editor-in-Chief at the of age of 27, cat was no joke.
E-in-C is the primary editor, having final responsibility for the operations and policies.
Shooter's power was attained so quickly and was so great,
that seasoned Marvel staff defected to DC out of jealousy.

In fact, "publisher Stan Lee relocated to Los Angeles
to better oversee Marvel's animation, television and film projects,
leaving Shooter largely in charge of the creative decision making
at Marvel's New York City headquarters."

Besides all this, TOAA is represented by the writers/artists of Marvel.
(Shooter was just beyond that cause he was the Writer and the E-in-C) ouch. 🙂

Originally posted by lannfear

..it is my understanding that the presence ( DC )
is a ficitional representation of the Abrahamic God
and that according to Greg Rucka writer of Final Crisis Revolution series, “...

the sort of unspoken rule in the DCU
is that the Judeo-Christian God sits above all others.
And then below that you can have your New Gods
and your Greek gods and whoever else you want.”

Dude, the Presence is an illustrated image drawn by human hands,
that ain't no Christian God, LOL! ... where his son is the devil, closer to him that Jesus.

Get that out of here dogs, this is comics.

The Presence is just the God of DC, which is this little fantasy world of pictures
with added visual text to imagine what they would be saying,
and everything they say,
comes from the mind of a finite minded human being labeled a Writer.

Originally posted by lannfear

and as to being ruler of quintillion Multiverses or whatever..
what does that prove?...might be a whole lot of nothing there to rule, ..
look at it like this...the USA has 50 states ..
Australia only 6...the USA isn't 8 times larger than AUS...

"Evolves and Flourishes Within the New Universe,
BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"

"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the infinity in which they dwell"

(your analogy is inconsequential concerning the Beyonder friend.)

Originally posted by lannfear

having more names for multiverses etc etc...
doesn't automatically follow that Marvel is bigger than DC...

I never even alluded to that idea.

Please be thorough when addressing my posts friend.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude, the Presence is an illustrated image drawn by human hands,
that ain't no Christian God, LOL! ... where his son is the devil, closer to him that Jesus.

Get that out of here dogs, this is comics.

The Presence is just the God of DC, which is this little fantasy world of pictures

Just little correction. The Presence is God of DC, while Christian God is not Christian, but is God of all and father of us all, the true The One Above All.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Just little correction. The Presence is God of DC,
while Christian God is not Christian,

but is God of all and father of us all, the true The One Above All.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Presence is an illustrated image drawn by human hands,
that ain't no Christian God

Originally posted by Mr Master

The Presence is just the God of DC

=== btw. If it's God of all and father of all,
then it's the Christian God, like the Muslim, like the Jewish God and so on,
since well, "it's the God of all" ... it represents all.

Originally posted by Mr Master
How are you correcting my post if you're saying exactly what I said?

I missed one word, which changed the concept. Cool then. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
=== btw. If it's God of all and father of all,
then it's the Christian God, like the Muslim, like the Jewish God and so on,
since well, "it's the God of all" ... it represents all.

Exactly.

Edit: Oh .. it's the retconned, thus non-existent Beyonder powerlevel, nevermind then 🙂

Dude, the Presence is an illustrated image drawn by human hands,
that ain't no Christian God, LOL! ... where his son is the devil, closer to him that Jesus.

Get that out of here dogs, this is comics.

The Presence is just the God of DC, which is this little fantasy world of pictures
with added visual text to imagine what they would be saying,
and everything they say,
comes from the mind of a finite minded human being labeled a Writer.
I understand this ...but why then does Greg Rucka writer of Final Crisis Revolution series, say this?

the sort of unspoken rule in the DCU
is that the Judeo-Christian God sits above all others.
And then below that you can have your New Gods
and your Greek gods and whoever else you want ...

That's a complete lie.

Only Stan Lee was technically above Shooter.
from jims mouth him self..... Where did you see yourself in the food chain while you were at Marvel as editor-in-chief?

JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.

cheers

heheh forgot to use quote boxes 😑 😑

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's also a great read

i mean secret wars II is an okay read.... for an 80's series. meh, differing tastes i guess. 😛

Originally posted by lannfear

I understand this ...
but why then does Greg Rucka writer of Final Crisis Revolution series,
say this?

the sort of unspoken rule in the DCU
is that the Judeo-Christian God sits above all others.
And then below that you can have your New Gods
and your Greek gods and whoever else you want ...

Nothing.

Second, what does that have to do with the "real" Judeo-Christian God?

Nothing.

They even got the story twisted, Lucifer is not God's son, or favorite interest,
neither is Michael.

That's just me barking on a technical level,
seriously, these are comics,
and simply put, in the DC world, aside from the "creators"
the Presence/GEB is the Supreme Being of DC.

In Marvel it's another, separate unrelated Supreme Being.

But in the mid 80's, Shooter went nuts and created the Beyonder,
a character so exaggerated that he had to be retconned. (de-powered)
Shooter simply made him too powerful.

That's unheard of, Marvel staff complaints coupled with DeFalco's stamp of approval,
Beyonder was de-powered.

De-Falco was the following Editor-in-Chief after Shooter.

Like I said, that's the Top dog position,
only that position had the power to retcon Shooter's creation,
and yet, it's the Writer that gets to make up the story.

Which is why I told ya, TOAA = (Writers/Artists) of Marvel.

Shooter = Editor-in-Chief & Writer. 🙂

Originally posted by lannfear

JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.

cheers

Originally posted by Galan007

hmm, great compared to what exactly? i would hope not to classics like: miracleman, watchmen, v for vendetta, the original secret wars, IG saga, animal man (v1), swamp thing, etc. - or even more recent series' like: sinestro corps wars, kingdom come, A/S superman, blue beetle, etc.

i mean secret wars II is an okay read.... for an 80's series. meh, differing tastes i guess.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Just read all the Secret Wars issues, including tie-ins.
It's also a great read, I also promise, best selling Marvel series ever.

SSII ... was not the best selling Marvel series ever.

Let's be thorough brother G. 😛

JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.

The president of the company, obviously, number one.

There was a fellow named Joe Calamari who was executive vice-president. He came in the middle there. He wasn't there at first, came in because Cadence was going through changes and he was cleaning house at other companies to sell them. When they didn't have a job for him doing that anymore, they stuck him at Marvel.

You could make an argument that the financial officer was ahead of me in the food chain. He used to complain that I got paid more than he did.

First year or so I was there Stan was entitled the publisher, but he never really had any authority. And he really didn't do anything. He was a creative guru. That was his real job. If he was sitting right here beside me, and I said, "Stan doesn't have any business skills." He'd say, "Yep, that's right, I don't" He was not a business man and he certainly was not a publisher. ...[H]e was still the guiding light. What he did mostly was try to sell things to Hollywood. That was his real job. He was there for a little while... [and] would help me with questions all the time. Then he went off to California to sell things to the West Coast.

For a time, I was the publisher and the editor. I was doing all the business of it as well. Then they brought in this guy, Mike Hobson. I could not believe it, because I'd done really well. I'd turned this ship around.

So Galton took me out to lunch. He said, "He doesn't have anything to do with you. I brought him in because we're going to start a children's book division and I need to have a publisher for the children's book division. But I have no authority to hire a publisher because I don't have my children's book division approved by the board yet. So I'm hiding him in the comics. I'm hiring the guy because I want this guy. I call him the publisher of comics because I can do that and no one will bat an eye. But his main job is going to be the other books."

As it turned out, it was great. We got along terrifically. I didn't have the kind of business education he did and he taught me a lot. He did serve as the publisher of the comics as well in the sense that he was head businessman. I was happy to have to turn stuff over to him. I would say something like we need contracts for this and HE would have to go wrangle with the lawyers.

You could argue that those four people were ahead of me in the food chain, but I had a voice. I was a vice president and I sat in all the staff meetings. I spoke and I was heard. I had a lot of influence. I used it as well as I could and failed miserably sometimes.

cheers
😄 😄

Originally posted by lannfear
JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.

The president of the company, obviously, number one.

There was a fellow named Joe Calamari who was executive vice-president. He came in the middle there. He wasn't there at first, came in because Cadence was going through changes and he was cleaning house at other companies to sell them. When they didn't have a job for him doing that anymore, they stuck him at Marvel.

You could make an argument that the financial officer was ahead of me in the food chain. He used to complain that I got paid more than he did.

First year or so I was there Stan was entitled the publisher, but he never really had any authority. And he really didn't do anything. He was a creative guru. That was his real job. If he was sitting right here beside me, and I said, "Stan doesn't have any business skills." He'd say, "Yep, that's right, I don't" He was not a business man and he certainly was not a publisher. ...[H]e was still the guiding light. What he did mostly was try to sell things to Hollywood. That was his real job. He was there for a little while... [and] would help me with questions all the time. Then he went off to California to sell things to the West Coast.

For a time, I was the publisher and the editor. I was doing all the business of it as well. Then they brought in this guy, Mike Hobson. I could not believe it, because I'd done really well. I'd turned this ship around.

So Galton took me out to lunch. He said, "He doesn't have anything to do with you. I brought him in because we're going to start a children's book division and I need to have a publisher for the children's book division. But I have no authority to hire a publisher because I don't have my children's book division approved by the board yet. So I'm hiding him in the comics. I'm hiring the guy because I want this guy. I call him the publisher of comics because I can do that and no one will bat an eye. But his main job is going to be the other books."

As it turned out, it was great. We got along terrifically. I didn't have the kind of business education he did and he taught me a lot. He did serve as the publisher of the comics as well in the sense that he was head businessman. I was happy to have to turn stuff over to him. I would say something like we need contracts for this and HE would have to go wrangle with the lawyers.

You could argue that those four people were ahead of me in the food chain, but I had a voice. I was a vice president and I sat in all the staff meetings. I spoke and I was heard. I had a lot of influence. I used it as well as I could and failed miserably sometimes.

cheers
😄 😄

Originally posted by lannfear
JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.
The president of the company, obviously, number one.
There was a fellow named Joe Calamari who was executive vice-president. He came in the middle there. He wasn't there at first, came in because Cadence was going through changes and he was cleaning house at other companies to sell them. When they didn't have a job for him doing that anymore, they stuck him at Marvel.
You could make an argument that the financial officer was ahead of me in the food chain. He used to complain that I got paid more than he did.
First year or so I was there Stan was entitled the publisher, but he never really had any authority. And he really didn't do anything. He was a creative guru. That was his real job. If he was sitting right here beside me, and I said, "Stan doesn't have any business skills." He'd say, "Yep, that's right, I don't" He was not a business man and he certainly was not a publisher. ...[H]e was still the guiding light. What he did mostly was try to sell things to Hollywood. That was his real job. He was there for a little while... [and] would help me with questions all the time. Then he went off to California to sell things to the West Coast.
For a time, I was the publisher and the editor. I was doing all the business of it as well. Then they brought in this guy, Mike Hobson. I could not believe it, because I'd done really well. I'd turned this ship around.
So Galton took me out to lunch. He said, "He doesn't have anything to do with you. I brought him in because we're going to start a children's book division and I need to have a publisher for the children's book division. But I have no authority to hire a publisher because I don't have my children's book division approved by the board yet. So I'm hiding him in the comics. I'm hiring the guy because I want this guy. I call him the publisher of comics because I can do that and no one will bat an eye. But his main job is going to be the other books."
As it turned out, it was great. We got along terrifically. I didn't have the kind of business education he did and he taught me a lot. He did serve as the publisher of the comics as well in the sense that he was head businessman. I was happy to have to turn stuff over to him. I would say something like we need contracts for this and HE would have to go wrangle with the lawyers.
You could argue that those four people were ahead of me in the food chain, but I had a voice. I was a vice president and I sat in all the staff meetings. I spoke and I was heard. I had a lot of influence. I used it as well as I could and failed miserably sometimes.
cheers

Back on topic, dude, what are you trying to prove?

Do you seriously think you're going to convince anyone
that in newspapers, magazines, (as in comic books) and even yearbooks,
Editor-in-Chief isn't the one running the show?

The show as in, operations and policies concerning the product?

I mean, I don't see your point.

Jim Shooter didn't own Marvel 😂

He was simply the top dog, concerning Marvel comics daily operations,
and when it came to making a decision at Marvel head quarters in New York,
in fact, like I told ya before, you must've missed it:

"publisher Stan Lee relocated to Los Angeles
to better oversee Marvel's animation, television and film projects,
leaving Shooter largely in charge of the creative decision making
at Marvel's New York City headquarters."

The 3 or 4 cooperate fat cats above him collect and write the checks,
they let the talent do the work, America baby.

Besides all this, TOAA is represented by the writers/artists of Marvel.
(Shooter was just beyond that cause he was the Writer and the E-in-C) ouch.

I have nothing to prove...was just pointing out that while Jim Shooter may have been the editor and chief...he wasn't the TOAA at marvel.......nothing more nothing less.....

cheers 😄

Originally posted by Mr Master
First, what does that have to do with Marvel?

Nothing.

Second, what does that have to do with the "real" Judeo-Christian God?

Nothing.

The Presence IS the comic book depiction of the Abrahamic God. That is a fact.
TOAA is/are just avatar/s of the comic book writers.
\

Who the hell is Elaine?

Originally posted by Aster Phoenix
Who the hell is Elaine?

A woman from Astolat that killed herself because Lancelot didn't love her.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A woman from Astolat that killed herself because Lancelot didn't love her.

And why can she do anything to Beyonder?

Dunno, unless there's a different version of her in comics. Probably from Excalibur or an obscure DC comic.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A woman from Astolat that killed herself because Lancelot didn't love her.

Oh, my, goodness.

You get mad props for such a reference. 👆