The Lizard VS. Wolverine

Im going to post what I think about this wolverine getting shot through the eye thing, I actually might agree with Wolverine fans in this case.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so? your point?

because he survived infernoes means his skeleton doesn't heat up? great logic 🙄

oh, i guess the artist has to paint his bones red to indicate heat everytime huh...or else it didn't heat up 🙄

😐

Thanks for putting words into my mouth.

Metal typically conducts heat faster than other materials and all the major muscle groups of the human body are connected directly to bones.... Wolverine has had his claws plunged into fire, magma, and hellflame. He's run around infernoes and in any moment damage has been mentioned it has been topical. If Wolverine's skeleton conducted heat as fast as other metals he would lose motor functions quite quickly. 😬

And yes, artistic representation of the metal turning red matter a bit.

Originally posted by Starscream M
any proof would just be PIS to you, so what's the point?

You're either very ignorant or quite forgetful...

perhaps you fail to remember that I actually STARTED OUT on the bandwagon of Wolverine being shot through the eye, nose and ear.... it wasn't until Cresh reminded me of existing counter evidence that I had to recont that line of thinking.

Originally posted by Starscream M
they're not always shown to be red because no one gives a rat's behind

however, when the writer was making a point about logan's metal attributes, he showed them being heated up rather easily (once with the blowtorch and once by the human torch)

neither time did Logan mention adamantium taking much more heat to heat up

which is another thing to the list of things you and jinzin pull outta your behinds about logan (in addition to his joints being connected and other crap you two make up)

😂

You know, hammer made a good point a week ago when he said that it's funny how the same people who want to argue Wolverine's bones are not bonded together are the same one's arguing for him having holes in his skull....
Thank you for showing the hypocritical nature of your argument.

Make up?
Wolverine's bones have been repeatidly stated as being bonded on a molecular level. He has multiple feats of his bones staying connected in situations that would otherwise be flat out impossible. There is NO/NONE/ZERO evidence to the contrary... yet that's made up?

No, that's comics... you know, the one's you constantly neglect to read. 😐

Originally posted by jinzin

Make up?
Wolverine's bones have been repeatidly stated as being bonded on a molecular level. He has multiple feats of his bones staying connected in situations that would otherwise be flat out impossible. There is NO/NONE/ZERO evidence to the contrary... yet that's made up?

so his joints are bonded...yet he could still bend his joints, with the amazing flexibility unbonded joints are...yeah, you're real consistent about applying anatomy 🙄

oh please show me the scan where it says his joints are bonded together to be unseparable....I won't hold my breath 🙄

Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah? no it wouldn't. 😐

You're either very ignorant or quite forgetful...

perhaps you fail to remember that I actually STARTED OUT on the bandwagon of Wolverine being shot through the eye, nose and ear.... it wasn't until Cresh reminded me of existing counter evidence that I had to recont that line of thinking.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so his joints are bonded...yet he could still bend his joints, with the amazing flexibility unbonded joints are...yeah, you're real consistent about applying anatomy 🙄

oh please show me the scan where it says his joints are bonded together to be unseparable....I won't hold my breath 🙄

And anatomy isn't the pillar of my argument. So way to miss that point... but then again you don't really get many. Anatomy is only one more thing that gives me reasonable doubt as to this phantom bone theory of yours; one thing AMONG MANY....
And if you want to talk about consistency then stop questioning Wolverine's bonded skeleton. 😐 or accept the fact that you're the poster boy for hypocrisy.

As I said, he's been discribed has having his bones bonded on a molecular level multiple times. It's never said "bonded together to be unseparable" but then again, that was never my claim.

Originally posted by jinzin

As I said, he's been discribed has having his bones bonded on a molecular level multiple times. It's never said "bonded together to be unseparable" but then again, that was never my claim.

we all know full well that when they say his bones are bonded, they're referring to his bones being bonded with adamantium and not that his bones are fused at the joints which you and hammer are implying

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm not quite sure what the point is you're trying to make

That's no big surprise... Business as usual for you eh? 😉

Originally posted by Starscream M
...you were originally had some sense but then decided to follow ignorance?😬

Originally posted by Starscream M
but then decided to follow ignorance?😬

I don't see at what point I said I followed you anywhere. 😕

No, the point is that I don't automatically discard what I don't like as PIS or just ignore it as you are doing. Instead I take ALL the evidence into account so I can come to a reasonable and objective conclusion free from immature bias.

I honestly don't know how Wolverine's skeleton is bonded together but it's been stated to be, and been shown to be, and has NO evidence that goes against the notion that it is. So I can't ignore it... At the same time I don't have to make sense of it.

But this whole phantom bone thing.... Its never been stated, and it's only been displayed in the examples that are up for debate.

So Starscream.... I know you're a reasonable person, or that at the lest you can be. I've seen you look at things with an inquisitive nature and draw yourself to conclusions that are accurate with what you've seen instead of what you've been told so I have to think that matters here too right?
When you questioned Hulk destroying a planetoid twice the size of Earth and it wasn't.
When Wonderwoman was said to fight at Flash-like speeds and she doesn't.

I see these things which make me garner some respect for your critical thinking only to come and see this shit.

Just answer me these few questions....

1. Why do these few examples take precedence over other examples and other artistic representations that are just as many?

2. Does the notion that Wolverine's lacking bones in his anatomy really make more sense to you than 4 mistakes .

3. When Doctor Cornelius was observing Wolverine... in an X-ray no less he claimed Wolverine was the perfect synthesis of Human anatomy and Adamantium.
There's multiple times Wolverine is displayed with Adamantium receding into the eye socket and indeed in the eye socket.
Wolverine rationalized how to get through his healing process using human anatomy.
Now we've seen Wolverine shot through the eye to ZERO effect.

Does all this NOT matter to you?

4. Do you honestly not see that there's evidence on both sides of this debate?

Because when we get down to it. If we want to ignore and nitpick using sheer bias alone those examples prove next to nothing with the exception of the arrow feat.

Originally posted by Starscream M
stop playing ignorant...you are acting right?

we all know full well that when they say his bones are bonded, they're referring to his bones being bonded with adamantium and not that his bones are fused at the joints which you and hammer are implying

When it says his bones are bonded TO Adamantium sure...

When it flat out states his bones are bonded.... well that's certainly more ambiguous isn't it?

Originally posted by jinzin
That's no big surprise... Business as usual for you eh? 😉

"you were originally had some sense".... LOL oh the irony.

I don't see at what point I said I followed you anywhere. 😕

No, the point is that I don't automatically discard what I don't like as PIS or just ignore it as you are doing. Instead I take ALL the evidence into account so I can come to a reasonable and objective conclusion free from immature bias.

I honestly don't know how Wolverine's skeleton is bonded together but it's been stated to be, and been shown to be, and has NO evidence that goes against the notion that it is. So I can't ignore it... At the same time I don't have to make sense of it.

But this whole phantom bone thing.... Its never been stated, and it's only been displayed in the examples that are up for debate.

So Starscream.... I know you're a reasonable person, or that at the lest you can be. I've seen you look at things with an inquisitive nature and draw yourself to conclusions that are accurate with what you've seen instead of what you've been told so I have to think that matters here too right?
When you questioned Hulk destroying a planetoid twice the size of Earth and it wasn't.
When Wonderwoman was said to fight at Flash-like speeds and she doesn't.

I see these things which make me garner some respect for your critical thinking only to come and see this shit.

Just answer me these few questions....

1. Why do these few examples take precedence over other examples and other artistic representations that are just as many?

2. Does the notion that Wolverine's lacking bones in his anatomy really make more sense to you than 4 mistakes .

3. When Doctor Cornelius was observing Wolverine... in an X-ray no less he claimed Wolverine was the perfect synthesis of Human anatomy and Adamantium.
There's multiple times Wolverine is displayed with Adamantium receding into the eye socket and indeed in the eye socket.
Wolverine rationalized how to get through his healing process using human anatomy.
Now we've seen Wolverine shot through the eye to ZERO effect.

Does all this NOT matter to you?

4. Do you honestly not see that there's evidence on both sides of this debate?

Because when we get down to it. If we want to ignore and nitpick using sheer bias alone those examples prove next to nothing with the exception of the arrow feat.

I'm accepting one thing that doesn't comport to anatomy (logan getting shot in the brain) and dismissing another (logan's joints being bonded)

You're acceting one thing that doesn't comport to anatomy (logan's joints being bonded) while dismissing another (logan getting shot in the brain)

the difference is that on panel...logan has been shot in the brain over 4 separate times, by separate writers and artists. So while it doesn't comport with actual human anatomy...it's happened enough that it shouldn't be PIS.

Whereas, you've yet to show me a scan that clearly says logan's joints are fused or bonded.

See the difference?😬

Originally posted by jinzin
When it says his bones are bonded TO Adamantium sure...

When it flat out states his bones are bonded.... well that's certainly more ambiguous isn't it?

Originally posted by Starscream M
ok, honestly, I think we're both hypocritical in some respects

I'm accepting one thing that doesn't comport to anatomy (logan getting shot in the brain) and dismissing another (logan's joints being bonded)

You're acceting one thing that doesn't comport to anatomy (logan's joints being bonded) while dismissing another (logan getting shot in the brain)

the difference is that on panel...logan has been shot in the brain over 4 separate times, by separate writers and artists. So while it doesn't comport with actual human anatomy...it's happened enough that it shouldn't be PIS.

Whereas, you've yet to show me a scan that clearly says logan's joints are fused or bonded.

See the difference?😬

You did not answer any of my questions...
Please bruce; Answer them honestly.

And again... It's not that I'm ignoring or accepting things based strictly on anatomy... Anatomy is only a fraction of what we're talking about.... Don't try to circum-navigate around that point. It matters.

I'm accepting and rejecting things based on evidence of which anatomy is only a part....

I'm not sure what it is you would like me to provide you. You've seen scans that read Wolverine's bones being bonded at a molecular level. And no, the fact that it doesn't state that they're bonded TO something, isn't just a semantics game it's defining what that bond IS.
On top of that there's Scans of Wolverine failing to be ripped apart by 2 heavy hitters who have tried, scans of Wolverine being burned to the Adamantium bone, put into conditions so hot no living tissue could exist, and even flat out desintigrated by the likes of Cassandra Nova, and the Suit's plasma weapon and never fallen into shambles, but instead remained in one piece.

The REAL difference is that I'm supporting something that has no evidence to counter it that doesn't exist outside the Ultimate verse, while you're supporting a position that has as much evidence riding against it as it does for it. 😬

1. Why do these few examples take precedence over other examples and other artistic representations that are just as many?

- Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's probable. Is it possible to hit logan's brain through his skull...yes. Is it easy...HELL NO.

2. Does the notion that Wolverine's lacking bones in his anatomy really make more sense to you than 4 mistakes .

- Makes about as much sense as his joints being magically fused (which you have yet to show me ONE friggin scan indicating so).

3. When Doctor Cornelius was observing Wolverine... in an X-ray no less he claimed Wolverine was the perfect synthesis of Human anatomy and Adamantium.
There's multiple times Wolverine is displayed with Adamantium receding into the eye socket and indeed in the eye socket.
Wolverine rationalized how to get through his healing process using human anatomy.
Now we've seen Wolverine shot through the eye to ZERO effect.
Does all this NOT matter to you?

- Wolverine himself has indicated the possibility of being hit through his eye. You trust Dr. Cornelius or Wolverine?

4. Do you honestly not see that there's evidence on both sides of this debate?

- See my answer to 1. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable. Its not gonna happen everytime to logan when he gets shot...but its happened enough times to chalk off PIS or writer ignorance.

When has lizard carried a gun around because that is the only times that I have seen the eye and brain being damaged and good post starscream.

Originally posted by Starscream M
1. Why do these few examples take precedence over other examples and other artistic representations that are just as many?

- Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's probable. Is it possible to hit logan's brain through his skull...yes. Is it easy...HELL NO.

That's not an acceptable answer. The counter evidence means that it's IMPOSSIBLE... so we have one feat where it can happen one where it can't... which takes precedence and why?
Once again answer the question I actually asked you.

Originally posted by Starscream M
2. Does the notion that Wolverine's lacking bones in his anatomy really make more sense to you than 4 mistakes .

- Makes about as much sense as his joints being magically fused (which you have yet to show me ONE friggin scan indicating so).

We all know a bonded skeleton makes no sense.. that's irrelivent.. answer what I asked you directly please.

Originally posted by Starscream M
3. When Doctor Cornelius was observing Wolverine... in an X-ray no less he claimed Wolverine was the perfect synthesis of Human anatomy and Adamantium.
There's multiple times Wolverine is displayed with Adamantium receding into the eye socket and indeed in the eye socket.
Wolverine rationalized how to get through his healing process using human anatomy.
Now we've seen Wolverine shot through the eye to ZERO effect.
Does all this NOT matter to you?

- Wolverine himself has indicated the possibility of being hit through his eye. You trust Dr. Cornelius or Wolverine?

But honestly I would give it to Cornelius looking at Wolverine's X-ray right infront of him. 😬

Originally posted by Starscream M
4. Do you honestly not see that there's evidence on both sides of this debate?

- See my answer to 1. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable. Its not gonna happen everytime to logan when he gets shot...but its happened enough times to chalk off PIS or writer ignorance.

And no, it's not enough to discard the possibility of PIS or writers ignorance.. One instance each area is not even close to enough especially when the evidence that counter's it is just as numerable.

Originally posted by jinzin
That's not an acceptable answer. The counter evidence means that it's IMPOSSIBLE... to we have one feat where it can happen one where it can't...
Once again answer the question I actually asked you.

Originally posted by jinzin

Again, you're not answering the question I'm asking you.

We all know a bonded skeleton makes no sense.. that's irrelivent.. answer what I asked you directly please.

Originally posted by jinzin

He pondered whether or not an explosive round in his eye socket would have done the trick. Explosive round, with jet effect and fragmentation. It's not the same as regular small arms fire and certainly doesn't mean that Wolverine thinks there isn't bone there...

But honestly I would give it to Cornelius looking at Wolverine's X-ray right infront of him. 😬

If he has bone behind the eye socket, it really wouldn't matter if the round was explosive or not, as nothing would get past adamantium. And you can bet Wolverine has studied xrays of his own skeleton far more than cornelius has...wolverine prob knows his own body better than virtually anyone else.

Originally posted by jinzin

Yep it IS the same as 1 in that you didn't answer the question I aksed you.
I'm asking questions that have very simple answers and you keep trying to answer around them then adressing them directly... C'mon what's so hard about being honest and giving blunt, short and to the point answers?

Originally posted by Starscream M
Follow an analogy then. If Vegeta fights 18 and gets his arms broken, that proves that his arms can break. Now if in their next ten fights, his arm never gets broken again, does that prove that his arm is unbreakable? No, it doesn't. So, sure logan got shot many times in the eye without it entering the brain, but that doesn't mean the coupla times it did happen was PIS. It's not a easy thing to replicate.

That's not even remotely the same and you know it.

It's more something along the lines of Superman wearing a green cape in one panel and a red one in the next...

Seriously, we've seen bone behind his eye sockets and such...

Once again, why is it that you take a position that has as much evidence to counter it? You're not being objective.

Originally posted by Starscream M
You know a bonded skeleton doesn't make sense, yet you accept it. Why? because on panel evidence has shown it to be so.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Same thing with the eye example.

Originally posted by Starscream M
If he has bone behind the eye socket, it really wouldn't matter if the round was explosive or not, as nothing would get past adamantium. And you can bet Wolverine has studied xrays of his own skeleton far more than cornelius has...wolverine prob knows his own body better than virtually anyone else.

Really? You think Wolverine knows himself better than someone who was under Romulus' supervision?

And once again that statement means nothing in accordance to the phantom bone theory. 😬

Originally posted by jinzin

and it's been stated, AND there's no evidence to be held against it.

Originally posted by Starscream M
- Makes about as much sense as his joints being magically fused (which you have yet to show me ONE friggin scan indicating so).

I liked the way Byrne had depicted Wolverine's skeleton in Uncanny X-Men #142. Like an action figure. If the other artists had depicted it the same way, there wouldn't have been so many questions about Logan's joints.