I was wrong!!!

Originally posted by Kovacs86
I agree. The graphic novel, however, is fantastic. It's probably my 2nd favourite comic of all time (after Watchmen).

Interesting.

You know, the funny thing is, the X-Men films actually handled the idea of discrimination and oppression against minority (which is certainly a part of the V for Vendetta movie) a lot better than that godawful movie.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Easily. There are an awful lot of people who'd agree with you. He's light-years ahead of most other comic writers...

Hell yeah. But I haven't seen any remarkable mainstream story from him aside from The Killing Joke- the rest are his own titles.

Though, from what I've heard and seen of him as a person, he seems like a massive douchebag.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
The death scene certainly was excellent, though I thought she was fine in the film. She was an improvement on Katie Holmes...
As for the Bat-voice, it was pretty cool in Begins, I thought. It occasionally got a little too... growl-y in The Dark Knight.

In TDK, she is less of a character and more of a driving force for the film, particularly Harvey's downfall. That's very good. Maggie, though, was at best a 'meh'. So was Holmes, but she was given more screen time- if less importance to the plot- so I found Holmes' acting more intolerable.

I agree on the Bat-voice.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Huh? Funeral scene... I can't even remember. Damn, I'm going to have to reread that, and maybe pay a little more attention next time.

If I remember correctly (and maybe I don't), there as a scene in which one of the Joker's 'clowns' is given a funeral. Very creepy scene.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
That about sums it up, though it's a real shame. I was really looking forward to getting an on-going series focusing on Batman's early years.

We don't need so many goddamn retellings of Batman's first years- we have the superb Long Halloween, Man Who Laughs, and Year One, all of which are far superior to Batman Confidential, to tell that.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
I'd better get to the comic shop at the weekend then, which means I'll need to take a bloody 25-minute train journey...
I was trying to avoid going, too. Maybe I'll just wait a couple of months and get it from Amazon...

Well, you know who to blame. 😉

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Interesting.

You know, the funny thing is, the X-Men films actually handled the idea of discrimination and oppression against minority (which is certainly a part of the V for Vendetta movie) a lot better than that godawful movie.

True. To be honest, while that was a theme in the graphic novel, it wasn't nearly as important as a number of others.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Hell yeah. But I haven't seen any remarkable mainstream story from him aside from The Killing Joke- the rest are his own titles.

He's meant to have written some good stuff on Superman (I've heard "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow is Good"😉, though I've never read any. He also did some Green Lantern (or, more specifically, Mogo) stuff, and, of course, worked on Swamp Thing, though he did completely reinvent the character. He also worked on Captain Britain and Dr Who. Not exactly mainstream, but hardly very obscure characters...
Moore doesn't do "mainstream" writing (he's not a Geoff Johns or a Jeph Loeb- he doesn't just write mainstream stories which will please a lot of people and be quick, easy reads; not that that's a criticism of Johns, who's great). Even when he writes mainstream characters, Moore doesn't approach them from a mainstream viewpoint, I think...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Though, from what I've heard and seen of him as a person, he seems like a massive douchebag.

He's not nearly as bad as people seem to think he is. He can be pretty funny too, to be honest. He has a very odd view of the world, though, which he can someone relate and sound quite rational. He worships a Roman snake God which was exposed as a puppet in the 2nd century, yet he doesn't actually really believe in it, I think...
He equates religion with art. He's an odd bloke, though extremely intelligent.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
If I remember correctly (and maybe I don't), there as a scene in which one of the Joker's 'clowns' is given a funeral. Very creepy scene.

That rings a bell. I'll re-read it when I get home.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
We don't need so many goddamn retellings of Batman's first years- we have the superb Long Halloween, Man Who Laughs, and Year One, all of which are far superior to Batman Confidential, to tell that.

True. Have you read the Dark Moon Rising comics (Batman and the Mad Monk, Batman and the Monster Men)? They're set early in his "career". They're alright, though a little too grounded (if that's the appropriate word) in fantasy...

Originally posted by Kovacs86
True. To be honest, while that was a theme in the graphic novel, it wasn't nearly as important as a number of others.

I understand that, obviously. But it's a definite theme, no?

For example, Norsefire is basically an even-more-extreme version of the Nazi party.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
He's meant to have written some good stuff on Superman (I've heard "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow is Good"😉, though I've never read any. He also did some Green Lantern (or, more specifically, Mogo) stuff, and, of course, worked on Swamp Thing, though he did completely reinvent the character. He also worked on Captain Britain and Dr Who. Not exactly mainstream, but hardly very obscure characters...

Oh, yeah. By the way, d'you know there's apparently going to be a 'Whatever happened to the Caped Crusader?' thing after RIP concludes? Obviously it's not written by Moore, but it's obviously gonna be similar.

Do you really think Batman will die? I'm not sure, actually. In the end of 680, he was slammed by a load of Joker gas, but I don't believe it's possible that it killed him. What's gonna happen to him? Speculate.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Moore doesn't do "mainstream" writing (he's not a Geoff Johns or a Jeph Loeb- he doesn't just write mainstream stories which will please a lot of people and be quick, easy reads; not that that's a criticism of Johns, who's great). Even when he writes mainstream characters, Moore doesn't approach them from a mainstream viewpoint, I think...

Hmm... I see. I think Loeb in particular is awesome.

The funny thing is, even after he wrote the relationship between the Joker and Batman- and the Joker in particular- although it was relatively unusual, it's now used by other writers. He redefined the Joker, basically.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
He's not nearly as bad as people seem to think he is. He can be pretty funny too, to be honest. He has a very odd view of the world, though, which he can someone relate and sound quite rational. He worships a Roman snake God which was exposed as a puppet in the 2nd century, yet he doesn't actually really believe in it, I think...
He equates religion with art. He's an odd bloke, though extremely intelligent.

Interesting. Well, y'know a lot of geniuses are relatively big weirdos.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
That rings a bell. I'll re-read it when I get home.

Coolio. Try to read it with an open mind- it's a very good book.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
True. Have you read the Dark Moon Rising comics (Batman and the Mad Monk, Batman and the Monster Men)? They're set early in his "career". They're alright, though a little too grounded (if that's the appropriate word) in fantasy...

I hadn't read 'em, no. I'm not -that- interested in 'fantastic' Batman books, actually. My favorite Batman books are those when he fights insane psychopaths like Joker and Two-Face, in addition to mob-type enemies, which is a good reason as to why I love The Long Halloween. Although, Hush is a very good example of a book that I love, despite featuring Batman's war against 'freaks' almost exclusively.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I understand that, obviously. But it's a definite theme, no?

For example, Norsefire is basically an even-more-extreme version of the Nazi party.

Oh, it is a theme, and Norsefire is definitely similar to the Nazi party (though the graphic novel was aimed more at Thatcher than Hitler). However, the comic is about much more, especially about ideas of anarchism and fascism. The characters, even the fascists, are all much more complex, too. It's so ****ing awesome...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Oh, yeah. By the way, d'you know there's apparently going to be a 'Whatever happened to the Caped Crusader?' thing after RIP concludes? Obviously it's not written by Moore, but it's obviously gonna be similar.

Do you really think Batman will die? I'm not sure, actually. In the end of 680, he was slammed by a load of Joker gas, but I don't believe it's possible that it killed him. What's gonna happen to him? Speculate.

He won't die. They surely wouldn't do that while they plan for a 3rd film.

PLEASE try not to spoil RIP for me...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Hmm... I see. I think Loeb in particular is awesome.

Meh. He writes too much crap for me to love him, but I do love the Long Halloween, and I also enjoyed Hush, Daredevil: Yellow, Spider-Man: Blue and Dark Victory. These last few years he's written so much bollocks, though. Did you read his run on Wolverine?

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
The funny thing is, even after he wrote the relationship between the Joker and Batman- and the Joker in particular- although it was relatively unusual, it's now used by other writers. He redefined the Joker, basically.

A huge amount of original stuff written by Moore has been copied, including Watchmen. Watchmen inspired so much, it's insane...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I hadn't read 'em, no. I'm not -that- interested in 'fantastic' Batman books, actually. My favorite Batman books are those when he fights insane psychopaths like Joker and Two-Face, in addition to mob-type enemies, which is a good reason as to why I love The Long Halloween. Although, Hush is a very good example of a book that I love, despite featuring Batman's war against 'freaks' almost exclusively.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Oh, it is a theme, and Norsefire is definitely similar to the Nazi party (though the graphic novel was aimed more at Thatcher than Hitler). However, the comic is about much more, especially about ideas of anarchism and fascism. The characters, even the fascists, are all much more complex, too. It's so ****ing awesome...

Well, that's coolio, definetly. I enjoy reading about fascism and political stuff like that.

Is V a kind of anarchist in the graphic novel? If I remember the movie (I caught it on a plane ride, actually. The only thing I can distinctly remember about it is that it was a load of ass), V there was reduced to a murderous vigilante pursuing revenge for what Norsefire did to him. Is his graphic novel persona more complex?

Originally posted by Kovacs86
He won't die. They surely wouldn't do that while they plan for a 3rd film.

PLEASE try not to spoil RIP for me...

Okay, sorry. 🙁

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Meh. He writes too much crap for me to love him, but I do love the Long Halloween, and I also enjoyed Hush, Daredevil: Yellow, Spider-Man: Blue and Dark Victory. These last few years he's written so much bollocks, though. Did you read his run on Wolverine?

Hey, all great comic book writers- with the arguable exception of Alan Moore- wrote some crap during their life. Hush is pretty modern anyway- it's probably the best Batman story of the 21st century, wouldn't you say?

And no, I didn't read his run on Wolverine, even if I, unlike so many people, love the character of Wolverine. What did he do?

Originally posted by Kovacs86
A huge amount of original stuff written by Moore has been copied, including Watchmen. Watchmen inspired so much, it's insane...

I think it's good that he's being imitated. After all, imagine the Joker without Alan Moore's Killing Joke. A huge amount of his character would be lost.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
I recommend Dark Moon Rising. Even though there are some more far-fetched elements, the mob also features prominently and it's a pretty good story from Batman's early years...

I understand. Do you know any sort of online site I can use to get my hands on some of the Batman comics? 'cuz, you see, I don't have any sort of comic book shop near me, at least not an updated one.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, that's coolio, definetly. I enjoy reading about fascism and political stuff like that.

Is V a kind of anarchist in the graphic novel? If I remember the movie (I caught it on a plane ride, actually. The only thing I can distinctly remember about it is that it was a load of ass), V there was reduced to a murderous vigilante pursuing revenge for what Norsefire did to him. Is his graphic novel persona more complex?

Yes, it is. Certainly, V is driven by revenge, but he's more complex than just a revenge-driven vigilante. He certainly believes in the anarchist cause, and there's some pretty profound stuff in there.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Okay, sorry. 🙁

I'll forgive you. 😉

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Hey, all great comic book writers- with the arguable exception of Alan Moore- wrote some crap during their life. Hush is pretty modern anyway- it's probably the best Batman story of the 21st century, wouldn't you say?

Certainly, it's one of the best Batman stories of this century, but there haven't been that many memorable ones. Dark Moon Rising was good, too, as were various other storylines, but I can't think of one great story written this century.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
And no, I didn't read his run on Wolverine, even if I, unlike so many people, love the character of Wolverine. What did he do?

The first issue was one of the worst I've ever read. It was little except for a lot of crappy action. It was almost as bad as his bastardisation of Ultimates.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I think it's good that he's being imitated. After all, imagine the Joker without Alan Moore's Killing Joke. A huge amount of his character would be lost.

To a certain extent, it's good. But Heroes is just Watchmen for a more mainstream audience, honestly.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I understand. Do you know any sort of online site I can use to get my hands on some of the Batman comics? 'cuz, you see, I don't have any sort of comic book shop near me, at least not an updated one.

I generally get my graphic novels from Amazon. If I want anything specific or new, I use Forbidden Planet, which is a great website...

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Yes, it is. Certainly, V is driven by revenge, but he's more complex than just a revenge-driven vigilante. He certainly believes in the anarchist cause, and there's some pretty profound stuff in there.

Well, that seems cool.

Is he depicted as a sympathetic or unsympathetic character in the novel? To me, it seemed like he was supposed to come off likeable, but ended up being utterly un-likeable in the movie.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
I'll forgive you. 😉

Thanks. 😄

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Certainly, it's one of the best Batman stories of this century, but there haven't been that many memorable ones. Dark Moon Rising was good, too, as were various other storylines, but I can't think of one great story written this century.

Hush wins for me. Oh, yeah, Clown at Midnight, The Man Who Laughs (yeah, it's difficult to write a bad Joker story if you're a half-decent comic book writer), and Batman R.I.P are all good, IMO.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
The first issue was one of the worst I've ever read. It was little except for a lot of crappy action. It was almost as bad as his bastardisation of Ultimates.

Really? What did he do? Humor me.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
To a certain extent, it's good. But Heroes is just Watchmen for a more mainstream audience, honestly.

Hmm... I see.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
I generally get my graphic novels from Amazon. If I want anything specific or new, I use Forbidden Planet, which is a great website...

Gotcha. Do you know if they make out-of-country delivers? I'm not American, or British, or whatever.

Oh, and I've just read a part of Marvel Zombies, and it was actually... good. It was far better than I expected anyway.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, that seems cool.

Is he depicted as a sympathetic or unsympathetic character in the novel? To me, it seemed like he was supposed to come off likeable, but ended up being utterly un-likeable in the movie.

V is certainly a sympathetic character, but he's still pretty messed up and does some unpleasant stuff...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Hush wins for me. Oh, yeah, Clown at Midnight, The Man Who Laughs (yeah, it's difficult to write a bad Joker story if you're a half-decent comic book writer), and Batman R.I.P are all good, IMO.

The Man Who Laughs would be my favourite out of that lot. I think Dark Victory is probably from 2000. That's pretty good, though nowhere near as good as the Long Halloween.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Really? What did he do? Humor me.

It was just... boring. There was a load of action and **** all else. As for Ultimates, it has to be read to be believed. Fortunately, Mark Millar's coming back soon...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Gotcha. Do you know if they make out-of-country delivers? I'm not American, or British, or whatever.

Well, it's called Forbidden Planet International, so I expect so. Amazon certainly does. See for yourself, it's a great 'site:
http://www.forbidden-planet.co.uk/

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Oh, and I've just read a part of Marvel Zombies, and it was actually... good. It was far better than I expected anyway.

Wow. That's a surprise. I thought that looked, to be frank, absolutely shite. It just seems a stupid idea, to be honest.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
V is certainly a sympathetic character, but he's still pretty messed up and does some unpleasant stuff...

That does remind me of some certain mainstream characters. He seems interesting, though.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
The Man Who Laughs would be my favourite out of that lot. I think Dark Victory is probably from 2000. That's pretty good, though nowhere near as good as the Long Halloween.

I still hadn't read Dark Victory, but yeah, it supposed to be pretty good. Though, Hush is somewhat close to Long Halloween, IMO, so something 'nowhere near' as good as that probably won't top it.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
It was just... boring. There was a load of action and **** all else. As for Ultimates, it has to be read to be believed. Fortunately, Mark Millar's coming back soon...

Lolz, I can't stand those books in which there's just "Hulk smassssshhh!" (yeah, I know it's not the Hulk, but you get the point).

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Well, it's called Forbidden Planet International, so I expect so. Amazon certainly does. See for yourself, it's a great 'site:
http://www.forbidden-planet.co.uk/

O-kay, thanks.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Wow. That's a surprise. I thought that looked, to be frank, absolutely shite. It just seems a stupid idea, to be honest.

It's kind of retarded, but the explanations for the zombie infestation is kind of cool, actually. And unlike most 'zombie' stories, the zombie-fied Marvel characters can actually think on their previous level, just not when they're hungry. It's enjoyable enough, I s'pose.

And if you hit the comic book stores in the near future, check out Magneto Testament. It's a very good series, thus far.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
That does remind me of some certain mainstream characters. He seems interesting, though.

I'd say V's a pretty original character, really. You'll just have to read it...

http://www.amazon.com/V-Vendetta-Alan-Moore/dp/0930289528/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223665982&sr=8-5

😉

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I still hadn't read Dark Victory, but yeah, it supposed to be pretty good. Though, Hush is somewhat close to Long Halloween, IMO, so something 'nowhere near' as good as that probably won't top it.

Dark Victory's not bad, it's just a bit too much of an attempt to copy Long Halloween's format, really. It's alright, though I wouldn't tell you to rush out and get it.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Lolz, I can't stand those books in which there's just "Hulk smassssshhh!" (yeah, I know it's not the Hulk, but you get the point).

Yeah, it was just like that, only with more smashing (or "snikt"ing or something...)

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
It's kind of retarded, but the explanations for the zombie infestation is kind of cool, actually. And unlike most 'zombie' stories, the zombie-fied Marvel characters can actually think on their previous level, just not when they're hungry. It's enjoyable enough, I s'pose.

And if you hit the comic book stores in the near future, check out Magneto Testament. It's a very good series, thus far.

Zombies sounds interesting. I'm curious, now, so I may have to get it...

As for Testament... well, I'm not really an X-Men fan, but... what's it about? I'm guessing Magneto's testament, but other than that... what is it?