Mortal Kombat vs. Soul Calibur

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No it isn't, if we go by overall powers, strength, speed, skill, durability, and power, they are far above MK(especially in speed). As far as DOA goes, shit, frickin Ryu Hayabusa alone could take Raiden and pwn him in the ass rather handily, as he could anyone else in MK.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. Then where the fvck did Raiden go when he blew himself up? So he just turned evil for no reason? Granted, I am no MK historian, what with MK's plot being, you know, not that great.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
4. Raiden just got knocked out, then got back up. And blew himself up. Nightmare, does not have Soul Edge, and does not have a body, yet he just soloed an army, and then did a blast comparable to Raiden's, and it did not affect him negatively at all. NM's feat is far superior.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Raiden and Shinnok's war did, a war with, you know, armies and stuff. And not blew up Earth. Destroyed, as in, it nearly wiped out all the people.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And...NM has caused planetary destruction/corruption on his own. See "Evil Seed."

Originally posted by SmashBro
1. Far above MK? I wouldn't say that about SF or Tekken. And as you said, overall power, that's basically the same thing as abilities, in which MK has over many of them. And I admit, they don't have any super speed feats, unless you wanna go by the movesets but then again, SF and Tekken hardly have any speed feats either. And I guess going by that, Hayabusa can do the same thing to SF and Tekken as well, huh?

3. MK's plot is not that bad. It's known to have a good storyline. They did kind of screw it up in MKA but it's not that hard to follow. Raiden got mad on his own. The explosion got no effect on his personality, if that's what you're thinking.

4. You keep saying the blast was just as big as Raiden's blast and with that being said, they're pretty even. It doesn't who blew himself up.

Where did you come up with the "armies" and stuff?

Also, can you direct me to that? The "Evil Seed" thing?

3. Sure, not terrible. But it is not the highlight of the series, which will always be the gore like it or not.

4. It was at least as big, NM was nowhere near full power(shit, he didn't even have a body), and he did not have to put his all in the attack. Since you're an idiot, you probably won't be able to see the context of what happened, but whatever.

Well, it did say war, and also, it was never specified how they almost "destroyed" Earth. And...Prove it was just them fighting one on one.

I doubt I can find a vid, but this is why when you enter debates you should at least have some sort of basic knowledge on the games.

Originally posted by MadMel
ryu could pwn a guy who made the planet quake simply by fighting? (possibly a retconned feat, but im not sure)

he went mad after the blast, not because of the blast..

raiden had just taken on an island buster + quan chi, and would have pwned them both had shang not healed himself midway through the fight via the soulnado 😬

no, just raiden vs shinnok, and they nearly blew up the earth..raiden stopped it, but sacrificed the saurosians in the process

im aware of that..

2. ...I'm confused then, why did he go mad? Or is MK's plot really THAT stupid? 😐

3. Island buster who used not island busting attacks, so it is irrelevant. And...So? NM didn't have a host, and didn't even have a single shard of Soul Edge. He was essentially nothing, his sword was not even real, it was a phantom.

4. Prove this please, and show the context of the situation.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No it isn't, overall, MK is far inferior. MK are only human in speed for Christ's sake. Tekken and SF characters can dodge bullets, and most or all are at least somewhat superhuman in speed. Ryu Hayabusa could no, since Tekken and SF>MK.

3. Sure, not terrible. But it is not the highlight of the series, which will always be the gore like it or not.

4. It was at least as big, NM was nowhere near full power(shit, he didn't even have a body), and he did not have to put his all in the attack. Since you're an idiot, you probably won't be able to see the context of what happened, but whatever.

Well, it did say war, and also, it was never specified how they almost "destroyed" Earth. And...Prove it was just them fighting one on one.

I doubt I can find a vid, but this is why when you enter debates you should at least have some sort of basic knowledge on the games.

1. Where did you get that characters in SF can dodge bullets from? And from what I've seen so far in both Tekken and SF, they move at normal speeds too, especially looking at the SFIV anime. So really, they're on par there. And MK got plenty of feats outdoes alot of them so no, saying SF and Tekken>MK is complety false.

4. You keep repeating yourself and call me an idiot as if it's making a point. It's not.

...This was a fight between gods, so they obviously weren't talking about typical war stuff. And it's said many times that it was a fight between Raiden and Shinnok. There was never stated be an army like you're claiming.

You can't be the one to talk, since you admitted that you're not a MK historian yourself. And I do try to keep up with SC storyline but it's just a bit kind of confusing. I guess because it's too detailed.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

2. ...I'm confused then, why did he go mad? Or is MK's plot really THAT stupid? 😐

After doing battle with the Deadly Alliance in the ether, Raiden's essence soon gathered again in the Earthrealm, where he had now become furious with the way Earthrealm's inhabitants had treated their own realm. He became even more enraged when he learned that Shujinko had foolishly unleashed the Dragon King by attaining the Kamidogu of various realms for him. With that, his patience exhausted, Raiden decided he was going to take matters into his own hands.

Originally posted by SmashBro
1. Where did you get that characters in SF can dodge bullets from? And from what I've seen so far in both Tekken and SF, they move at normal speeds too, especially looking at the SFIV anime. So really, they're on par there. And MK got plenty of feats outdoes alot of them so no, saying SF and Tekken>MK is complety false.

4. You keep repeating yourself as if it's making a point. It's not.

...This was a fight between gods, so they obviously weren't talking about typical war stuff. And it's said many times that it was a fight between Raiden and Shinnok. There was never stated be an army like you're claiming.

You can't be the one to talk, since you admitted that you're not a MK historian yourself. And I do try to keep up with SC storyline but it's just a bit kind of confusing. I guess because it's too detailed.

4. Only because you're an idiot who doesn't understand the meaning of context.

Really? Can you prove that? It was said it was a WAR, not a one on one battle.

No, I am not. But I know the basic shit. And you don't even know what the Evil Seed is. Just so you know, it was when Siegfried first acquired Soul Edge and became Nightmare, it caused a catastrophic global event. It was mostly a feat of corruption, though I think I can recall there being an element of destruction as well. Would have to look into it though.

Originally posted by Kazenji

And he went "mad" over that?

Oh, and what I gathered from that was that Raiden did kill himself in the blast, but since he is immortal, he just rematerialized.

i know what you mean, but that made no sense 😂
he destroyed his physical body is what you mean 😛

regarding the raiden vs. shinnok thing, i said it was a PRIVATE war, meaning just shinnok and raiden fighting alone..raiden doesn't have the means to create an army anyways 😬

regarding the ryu vs raiden..raiden made the planet quake simply by fighting...thats either a near superman level strength feat, or the fact that he was so pissed off he was going the thundergod equivalent of super saiyan...(again, not entire sure if thats canon 😬)

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
...Well other than the Shujinko thing what was new?

And he went "mad" over that?

And also

"where he had now become furious with the way Earthrealm's inhabitants had treated their own realm"

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
[B]1. You prove magic was used in the clash. I can't prove a negative. SE and SC when just doing a normal slash have never done a magic blast I know of.

I didn't tell you to prove a negative. I want you to prove it was a purely physical clash. As for what I need to prove, I can't prove a negative. You want me to prove that it wasn't just a physical clash... a negative.

2. True, MK is the weakest fighting game series I know of(Darkstalkers being the undisputed strongest). And they are slow. But, Raiden is the perfect character to beat Vader, able to form into lightning and spam fire it.

And vader can snap his neck with a thought...

Though this is Starkiller now, and thus a whole different ballgame.

Starkiller's got basically the same abilities as vader and than some, and he can sue and manipulate lightning as well... so either way team MK gets owned.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Typo, but at least Ryu, Ken, and Gouki can. ...What? In the SF 4 anime, Gouki redirected his momentum in mid-air from like 30 feet and kicked Ryu in the face in less than a second later. How the fvck is that normal speed? And Gouki in one leap while underwater and kicking a sunken ship in half traveled 1,000 miles to above the surface. That's normal speed though too right?

4. Only because you're an idiot who doesn't understand the meaning of context.

Really? Can you prove that? It was said it was a WAR, not a one on one battle.

No, I am not. But I know the basic shit. And you don't even know what the Evil Seed is. Just so you know, it was when Siegfried first acquired Soul Edge and became Nightmare, it caused a catastrophic global event. It was mostly a feat of corruption, though I think I can recall there being an element of destruction as well. Would have to look into it though.

1. When could Ryu, Ken, and Gouki do that? You're using Gouki's kick to say he has super speed? Then you're gonna have to say the same thing about MK because that kick looked no different from Liu Kang's flying kick. Plus you also forget, Kabal's got super speed too.

4. You say that people call you the best debater on here and yet you're throwing insults to cover your own a**. If you can't make any good arguments then shut up!

...😐 Boy, are you paying attention? Shinnok's got no backup. He's fighting all alone and is fighting ONLY against Raiden. There was no army. Besides, you claimed it was so why don't you back up your claims?

Okay, first of all, it causing "catastrophic global event" was not said neither ones profile in the first Soul Calibur. And second, it is basic knowledge that Siegfried became Nightmare at the event but it causing a catastrophic global event, now who the heck is suppose to remember that? I bet that's hardly even mentioned

Originally posted by SmashBro
1. When could Ryu, Ken, and Gouki do that? You're using Gouki's kick to say he has super speed? Then you're gonna have to say the same thing about MK because that kick looked no different from Liu Kang's flying kick. Plus you also forget, Kabal's got super speed too.

4. You say that people call you the best debater on here and yet you're throwing insults to cover your own a**. If you can't make any good arguments then shut up!

...😐 Boy, are you paying attention? Shinnok's got no backup. He's fighting all alone and is fighting ONLY against Raiden. There was no army. Besides, you claimed it was so why don't you back up your claims?

Okay, first of all, it causing "catastrophic global event" was not said neither ones profile in the first Soul Calibur. And second, it is basic knowledge that Siegfried became Nightmare at the event but it causing a catastrophic global event, now who the heck is suppose to remember that? I bet that's hardly even mentioned

2. I made the argument that showed the context of both situations. In Raiden's case, he was not cripply weakened, and he had to destroy his own body to do that attack. In Nightmare's case, he was literally dying, he had to kill large amounts of people at one time to keep him alive, he didn't have a body, and he didn't even have Soul Edge, yet he did a blast similar to Raiden's without having to sacrifice his form. Nightmare's feat is greater like it or not, if you are too dumb to see that, then that is your problem.

3. Regardless, the quote is still vague, ambiguous, and hell, quite likely hyperbole. We have no idea what happened, how it happened, or anything.

4. ...That is basic knowledge and one of the most pivotal events in SC. It affected several characters in the series, Taki for one, I am pretty sure that is what corrupted her sword(I might be wrong about that though). Anyone who has decent knowledge on SC should know what the Evil Seed is. I don't care what you "bet", it is stated several times. I think it was stated in multiple character's profiles in 2 as well.

And besides that, Soul Calibur and Soul Edge when they clashed destroyed a large castle, warped Nightmare to another dimension along with all the shards of Soul Edge on the planet, granting him a new, stronger body along with the complete SE, and it eviscerated Siegfried who was healed by Soul Calibur. All of this stated in SC4.

Originally posted by MadMel
i know what you mean, but that made no sense 😂
he destroyed his physical body is what you mean 😛

regarding the raiden vs. shinnok thing, i said it was a PRIVATE war, meaning just shinnok and raiden fighting alone..raiden doesn't have the means to create an army anyways 😬

regarding the ryu vs raiden..raiden made the planet quake simply by fighting...thats either a near superman level strength feat, or the fact that he was so pissed off he was going the thundergod equivalent of super saiyan...(again, not entire sure if thats canon 😬)

2. Was that directly stated?

3. No it isn't, and what game is that?

And for someone near Superman level in strength, he sure can't seem to even so much as rival Onaga in a physical fight. 😬

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Do what? They can dodge bullets too, which is more than anyone in MK can say. If you think that kicked was the same as Liu Kang's flying kick, then you are an idiot, plain and simple. I said most, there are a select few rare exceptions, but most are SLOW. Hell, even the top tiers like Raiden, Shang Tsung, Quanchi, and Shao Kahn are only human speed or worse.

2. I made the argument that showed the context of both situations. In Raiden's case, he was not cripply weakened, and he had to destroy his own body to do that attack. In Nightmare's case, he was literally dying, he had to kill large amounts of people at one time to keep him alive, he didn't have a body, and he didn't even have Soul Edge, yet he did a blast similar to Raiden's without having to sacrifice his form. Nightmare's feat is greater like it or not, if you are too dumb to see that, then that is your problem.

3. Regardless, the quote is still vague, ambiguous, and hell, quite likely hyperbole. We have no idea what happened, how it happened, or anything.

4. ...That is basic knowledge and one of the most pivotal events in SC. It affected several characters in the series, Taki for one, I am pretty sure that is what corrupted her sword(I might be wrong about that though). Anyone who has decent knowledge on SC should know what the Evil Seed is. I don't care what you "bet", it is stated several times. I think it was stated in multiple character's profiles in 2 as well.

And besides that, Soul Calibur and Soul Edge when they clashed destroyed a large castle, warped Nightmare to another dimension along with all the shards of Soul Edge on the planet, granting him a new, stronger body along with the complete SE, and it eviscerated Siegfried who was healed by Soul Calibur. All of this stated in SC4.

1. Most people in SF are slow too so really, you're going nowhere with this. And yes, Gouki's kick was basically the same thing as Liu Kang's flying kick. You're just in denial if you're saying it wasn't.

2. You still haven't said WHY it's greater. You continuously say the blast was just as big as Raiden's yet still say it's better so what you're saying it's pointless. Again, it doesn't matter if someone blew themself up, it's not like Nightmare gonna take Raiden's explosion so it's pretty even there, whether you like it or not.

3. Yet we got what we hear all the time; it was a fight between Raiden and Shinnok that nearly destroyed Earth. If you got evidence that says otherwise, you either prove it or leave it as it is.

4. You don't seem to be too sure yourself, which does little to help your case. It's still pointless though, as it was caused by a transformation, not some fight.

Also, destroying Ostrechenberg<<<<<nearly destroying Earth.

Originally posted by SmashBro
1. Most people in SF are slow too so really, you're going nowhere with this. And yes, Gouki's kick was basically the same thing as Liu Kang's flying kick. You're just in denial if you're saying it wasn't.

2. You still haven't said WHY it's greater. You continuously say the blast was just as big as Raiden's yet still say it's better so what you're saying it's pointless. Again, it doesn't matter if someone blew themself up, it's not like Nightmare gonna take Raiden's explosion so it's pretty even there, whether you like it or not.

3. Yet we got what we hear all the time; it was a fight between Raiden and Shinnok that nearly destroyed Earth. If you got evidence that says otherwise, you either prove it or leave it as it is.

4. You don't seem to be too sure yourself, which does little to help your case. It's still pointless though, as it was caused by a transformation, not some fight.

Also, destroying Ostrechenberg<<<<<nearly destroying Earth.

2. ...You're like, dumb or sumthin. 😐 I CLEARLY explained why it is greater, NM was at a much more weakened state than Raiden was, and didn't have to blow himself up, it is MUCH greater, and if NM can take the blast that destroyed Ostreinberg, he can easily take Raiden's suicide blast.

3. But...We have no clear indication of how, or under what context. Hell...I can bring up various quotes of SC characters "destroying the world", but the context is not there so I won't.

4. I am very sure, or are you talking about my statement of being unclear on the Taki thing? That's a Strawman fallacy mate, and you fail ass for it. It was caused without a fight, which by warped logic such as yours it is greater.

5. Context is not stated. Hell, it has been stated that NM, Astaroth, Cervantes, or other characters wielding a complete Soul Edge would destroy Earth.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
No, most in SF are not slow. Vega, Chun-Li, Cammy, and many others are above human speed and agility. Basically the same thing? Gouki changed momentum in midair and flew towards Ryu and kicked him in the jaw when he was thirty feet high at least, when has Kang's kick ever done THAT?

2. ...You're like, dumb or sumthin. 😐 I CLEARLY explained why it is greater, NM was at a much more weakened state than Raiden was, and didn't have to blow himself up, it is MUCH greater, and if NM can take the blast that destroyed Ostreinberg, he can easily take Raiden's suicide blast.

3. But...We have no clear indication of how, or under what context. Hell...I can bring up various quotes of SC characters "destroying the world", but the context is not there so I won't.

4. I am very sure, or are you talking about my statement of being unclear on the Taki thing? That's a Strawman fallacy mate, and you fail ass for it. It was caused without a fight, which by warped logic such as yours it is greater.

5. Context is not stated. Hell, it has been stated that NM, Astaroth, Cervantes, or other characters wielding a complete Soul Edge would destroy Earth.

Stop making up numbers. And we were talking about speed so all of that "turning around" mess is irrevelant. And you say they're above human speed and yet you base this on nothing. You seem to have a hard time backing up your claims.

2. You liar, you didn't explain squat. You just simply compared the two and yet didn't bring up nothing good for Nightmare's case. Also, originally, you said it was the clash of the SE and SC that destroyed the now you're saying it was a blast? Make up your mind. And like I said twice, it doesn't matter if he didn't have to blow himself up, that wasn't his intention anyway.

3. That sounds like an excuse to me. Besides, you were so sure he used an army or something and now you're trying to come up with another excuse because you know you made it up. If what was said is a one-on-one fight that nearly destroyed the Earth, we got no reason to believe it was anything BUT a fight...which it was.

4. No, I'm talking about more than just that. Saying stuff like "I think it was stated" "I'm pretty sure it was" or "I could be wrong" leads me to believe even you're not 100% sure about what you're talking about.

5. A stated one-on-one fight that nearly destroyed the world. What more do you want? And from the looks of it, neither one of them currently have the complete Soul Edge so that's pointless to begin with.

Edited cause I don't feel like being banned

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Edited cause I don't feel like being banned

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. Was that directly stated?

When Earthrealm was young, Raiden was its protector. He fought the rogue Elder God Shinnok, who wished to overthrow his fellow gods, in a war that threatened to destroy Earthrealm itself.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. No it isn't, and what game is that?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And for someone near Superman level in strength, he sure can't seem to even so much as rival Onaga in a physical fight. 😬

just pointing out that team SC does indeed win, cuz the only real fighters on team MK are scorpion and raiden..replace the others with people like onaga and shao kahn and we'd at least have a decent fight..

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Edited cause I don't feel like being banned